[USA] What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?

Is there any way to hijack this thread back to Rick's post? Mandatory
flarm vs 99% voluntary at Uvalde, how Flarm will make euro and us
flarms interoperable (of course they will), FCC legalities, how US
Uvalde organizers will handle flarm are non-issues that none of us
knows anything about.

Rick asked about the insane (my opinion) 13.5 meter class, including
the momentous issue of water ballast. I responded with, let's split
club in two instead. He asked about handicaps in Arcus class (sorry,
20 m double seat), wgc locations, various "safety" measures. All these
and more seem like far more important and contentious items on the IGC
agenda.

Can't we give him and other IGC delegates some more useful feedback
before the meeting?


John Cochrane

On Jan 26, 6:56*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
Is there any way to hijack this thread back to Rick's post? Mandatory
flarm vs 99% voluntary at Uvalde, how Flarm will make euro and us
flarms interoperable (of course they will), *FCC legalities, how US
Uvalde organizers will handle flarm are non-issues that *none of us
knows anything about.

Rick asked about the insane (my opinion) 13.5 meter class, including
the momentous issue of water ballast. I responded with, let's split
club in two instead. He asked about handicaps in Arcus class (sorry,
20 m double seat), wgc locations, various "safety" measures. All these
and more seem like far more important and contentious items on the IGC
agenda.

Can't we give him and other IGC delegates some more useful feedback
before the meeting?

John Cochrane

Is it surprising that the majority of posts relate to the question
that was posed in the thread title?

Maybe the way to promote discussion of the other issues would be to
start new threads with appropriate titles?

Andy

Flarm has a configuration file in which it is possible to specify the
frequency to be used. The current options a
Australia 921 MHz
New Zealand 869.2 MHz
North America 915 MHz
Rest of the World 868.0 - 868.6 MHz

No doubt if the FCC specified a different frequency in this part of the
spectrum additional config. file options would be made available.

On Jan 26, 6:38*am, Big Wings wrote:
Flarm has a configuration file in which it is possible to specify the
frequency to be used. *The current options a
Australia * * * * 921 MHz
New Zealand * 869.2 MHz
North America 915 MHz
Rest of the World 868.0 - 868.6 MHz

No doubt if the FCC specified a different frequency in this part of the
spectrum additional config. file options would be made available.


This has been discussed many times on ras already. Flarm classic
devices already support the USA 915 MHz ISM band (and will
automatically frequency switch as well as being manually configurable
if you want), this is the same frequency band that PowerFLARM will use
in the USA. However having something implemented in the code and
having the devices legal/FCC approved are two different things. And
the Flarm classic devices are not FCC approved. I do not believe there
is any work underway by FLARM or any OEM to have any existing devices
FCC approved and FLARM seems to be putting significant work into
meeting all the niggly specs for FCC approval on the PowerFLARM units.
This is something I would assume the IGC and others involved in this
contest know all the details on, if not its a simple email or phone
call to the Flarm guys to find out the details to help with making
decisions to ensure Flarm technology is available for those
contestants that want it at this contest. Again not one thing here
should be a surprise.

Darryl

On Jan 26, 10:50*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jan 26, 6:38*am, Big Wings wrote:

Flarm has a configuration file in which it is possible to specify the
frequency to be used. *The current options a
Australia * * * * 921 MHz
New Zealand * 869.2 MHz
North America 915 MHz
Rest of the World 868.0 - 868.6 MHz

No doubt if the FCC specified a different frequency in this part of the
spectrum additional config. file options would be made available.

This has been discussed many times on ras already. Flarm classic
devices already support the USA 915 MHz ISM band (and will
automatically frequency switch as well as being manually configurable
if you want), this is the same frequency band that PowerFLARM will use
in the USA. However having something implemented in the code and
having the devices legal/FCC approved are two different things. And
the Flarm classic devices are not FCC approved. I do not believe there
is any work underway by FLARM or any OEM to have any existing devices
FCC approved and FLARM seems to be putting significant work into
meeting all the niggly specs for FCC approval on the PowerFLARM units.
This is something I would assume the IGC *and others involved in this
contest know all the details on, if not its a simple email or phone
call to the Flarm guys to find out the details to help with making
decisions to ensure Flarm technology is available for those
contestants that want it at this contest. Again not one thing here
should be a surprise.

Darryl

I'll also point out that the midair that occurred last summer involved
a plane
that didn't have FLARM, so I can see the point of requiring it during
a WGC.
This year's pre-worlds contest is limited to 40 planes so it should be
less
of an issue.

-- Matt

On Jan 26, 8:04*am, mattm wrote:
On Jan 26, 10:50*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Jan 26, 6:38*am, Big Wings wrote:

Flarm has a configuration file in which it is possible to specify the
frequency to be used. *The current options a
Australia * * * * 921 MHz
New Zealand * 869.2 MHz
North America 915 MHz
Rest of the World 868.0 - 868.6 MHz

No doubt if the FCC specified a different frequency in this part of the
spectrum additional config. file options would be made available.

This has been discussed many times on ras already. Flarm classic
devices already support the USA 915 MHz ISM band (and will
automatically frequency switch as well as being manually configurable
if you want), this is the same frequency band that PowerFLARM will use
in the USA. However having something implemented in the code and
having the devices legal/FCC approved are two different things. And
the Flarm classic devices are not FCC approved. I do not believe there
is any work underway by FLARM or any OEM to have any existing devices
FCC approved and FLARM seems to be putting significant work into
meeting all the niggly specs for FCC approval on the PowerFLARM units.
This is something I would assume the IGC *and others involved in this
contest know all the details on, if not its a simple email or phone
call to the Flarm guys to find out the details to help with making
decisions to ensure Flarm technology is available for those
contestants that want it at this contest. Again not one thing here
should be a surprise.

Darryl

I'll also point out that the midair that occurred last summer involved
a plane
that didn't have FLARM, so I can see the point of requiring it during
a WGC.
This year's pre-worlds contest is limited to 40 planes so it should be
less
of an issue.

-- Matt

I would hope the pre-worlds could be used by all attending/organizing
to shake out use of PowerFLARM systems for their upcoming word
contest, including dealing with organizational logistics for rentals/
loaners etc. If there is possibility the Worlds will mandate FLARM
then it makes sense to run through the validation/checking procedures
that a mandate might involve even if the pre-worlds was not also
affected by a mandate. And again I am not suggesting there needs to be
a mandate, IMNSHO that should be left mostly to the competitors to
decide if they want a mandate. What is more important in my opinion is
absolutely ensuring the world contest every competitor who want to use
FLARM technology has reasonably easy access to a PowerFLARM device.
The discussion should be on what "reasonably easy" means.


Darryl

On Jan 26, 7:56*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
Is there any way to hijack this thread back to Rick's post? Mandatory
flarm vs 99% voluntary at Uvalde, how Flarm will make euro and us
flarms interoperable (of course they will), *FCC legalities, how US
Uvalde organizers will handle flarm are non-issues that *none of us
knows anything about.

Rick asked about the insane (my opinion) 13.5 meter class, including
the momentous issue of water ballast. I responded with, let's split
club in two instead. He asked about handicaps in Arcus class (sorry,
20 m double seat), wgc locations, various "safety" measures. All these
and more seem like far more important and contentious items on the IGC
agenda.

Can't we give him and other IGC delegates some more useful feedback
before the meeting?

John Cochrane

13.5 meter - John your comments seem to make sense to me. The other
morning I was thinking about it and the answer seemed obvious. A 13.5
meter, ballasted Sparrowhawk. That is, if they allow ballast. I like
your suggestion of just making it the 13.5 meter handicapped class,
but the IGC already denied handicaps once. I guess they could change
their mind. Looking at the sailplane directory I picked out the
following likely contenders in a 13.5 meter race and their US
handicaps:

Russia - 1.145
L33 - 1.18
SZD-59 - 1.04
PW-5 - 1.18
Sparrowhawk - 1.17

So maybe, re-defining the class to be 13.5 meters or less with a (US)
handicap of 1.1 or greater would be the way to go. Or if you want to
be even more limiting run the handicap range from 1.1 to 1.2. But
then I wouldn't be able to fulfill my dream of flying my Cherokee II
in the Worlds...

20 meter 2 seat - I guess it depends on what the IGC wants the class
to be. You are basically talking about three types here, right? Duo
Discus, DG-1000, and Arcus? Handicap it and all three will show up
and you'll probably have a pretty popular class. It seems to me there
are a fair number of people who fly their Duo's and DG's in contests
in the US. The last I knew there was ~1 Arcus in the US. But if they
want to encourage further development in the 20 meter 2 seater class
then it will be the Arcus class until something better comes along.