Towing Accident Rate vs GA?

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:38:19 -0800, Ramy wrote:

I am actually not surprised. The NTSB is notorious for missing the point
and opportunities to learn lessons. All they need to find is some
alcohol or drug in the blood and balme it on it and they are done. Just
like in car accidents. Otherwsie they conclude a pilot error due to loss
of control. I bet Bumper's investigation by just looking at the tow hook
was more thorough than the NTSB investigation.

Do you not have a govermental organisation like our AAIB in Leftpondia?

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/publications/formal_reports.cfm

Their investigations and reports seem very thorough.

--
Alex

On Jan 27, 6:24*pm, Alex Potter wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:38:19 -0800, Ramy wrote:
I am actually not surprised. The NTSB is notorious for missing the point
and opportunities to learn lessons. All they need to find is some
alcohol or drug in the blood and balme it on it and they are done. Just
like in car accidents. Otherwsie they conclude a pilot error due to loss
of control. I bet Bumper's investigation by just looking at the tow hook
was more thorough than the NTSB investigation.

Do you not have a govermental organisation like our AAIB in Leftpondia?

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/publications/formal_reports.cfm

Their investigations and reports seem very thorough.

--
Alex

NTSB performs a similar function to AAIB but they are not only
responsible for air accidents, but all accidents in the national
transportation system, which includes road and rail. They seem to
investigate major accidents thoroughly. Their investigation staff may
be spread too thin to investigate accidents that don't have a
significant impact on public safety. Just speculation of course but it
does seem consistent with the standard of investigation that I have
seen for accidents that I knew something about before the report was
published.

Andy

On Jan 28, 6:55*am, Andy wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:24*pm, Alex Potter wrote:



On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:38:19 -0800, Ramy wrote:
I am actually not surprised. The NTSB is notorious for missing the point
and opportunities to learn lessons. All they need to find is some
alcohol or drug in the blood and balme it on it and they are done. Just
like in car accidents. Otherwsie they conclude a pilot error due to loss
of control. I bet Bumper's investigation by just looking at the tow hook
was more thorough than the NTSB investigation.

Do you not have a govermental organisation like our AAIB in Leftpondia?

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/publications/formal_reports.cfm

Their investigations and reports seem very thorough.

--
Alex

NTSB performs a similar function to AAIB but they are not only
responsible for air accidents, but all accidents in the national
transportation system, which includes road and rail. *They seem to
investigate major accidents thoroughly. *Their investigation staff may
be spread too thin to investigate accidents that don't have *a
significant impact on public safety. Just speculation of course but it
does seem consistent with the standard of investigation that I have
seen for accidents that I knew something about before the report was
published.

Andy

This NTSB report is an embarrassment. How many stone cold sober tow
pilots could recover an upset at 200feet? I haven't flown a 150hp
Pawnee but I've heard it has trouble getting out of its own way in
benign circumstances much less a kiting glider at 200 feet and a
release system that may have been compromised.

On Jan 28, 10:58*am, 150flivver wrote:
*How many stone cold sober tow
pilots could recover an upset at 200feet? *

My guess is none. You have to recognise the problem, find the release
handle which is poorly placed in all the Pawnees I have flown, pull
it, hope the hook load is not so high that the rope can't be dumped,
and then recover from the dive.

Andy

Andy wrote:

On Jan 28, 10:58*am, 150flivver wrote:
*How many stone cold sober tow
pilots could recover an upset at 200feet? *

My guess is none. You have to recognise the problem, find the release
handle which is poorly placed in all the Pawnees I have flown, pull
it, hope the hook load is not so high that the rope can't be dumped,
and then recover from the dive.

Andy

I have survived one of these upsets, fortunately at about 400ft.
The effect on both the tow plane and the glider when the rope came
tight was an instantaneous transition from horizontal to vertical.

My first reaction was to shut the throttle, and I guarantee that this
would be yours also. The second was to release the rope, but the
glider pilot had already pulled his release.

Recovery from the dive is the #1 problem. If you are too low you will
likely pull the tug to horizontal and flick-roll into the deck, or
simply go straight in.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 04:55:21 -0800, Andy wrote:

NTSB performs a similar function to AAIB but they are not only
responsible for air accidents, but all accidents in the national
transportation system, which includes road and rail. They seem to
investigate major accidents thoroughly. Their investigation staff may
be spread too thin to investigate accidents that don't have a
significant impact on public safety. Just speculation of course but it
does seem consistent with the standard of investigation that I have seen
for accidents that I knew something about before the report was
published.

In the UK, we split the functions between the RAIB, AAIB and the police,
for railways, aviation and road transport respectively.

Both of the AIBs publish extensively documented, detailed reports, after
thorough investigations. I've tried, and failed, to find similarly
detailed reports on the NTSB web site. Are there any?

--
Alex

Both of the AIBs publish extensively documented, detailed reports,
after
thorough investigations. I've tried, and failed, to find similarly
detailed reports on the NTSB web site. Are there any?

If you're sufficiently rich/important, a little more effort is put
into trying to figure out what really happened. Fosset's NTSB is a
good example: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...FA277& akey=1
....not sure how it compares to RAIB/AIB reports though.

-Paul