Most numerous sailplane type and model in the world?

On Feb 6, 11:37*am, Mike Schumann
wrote:
On 2/6/2011 11:19 AM, Tim wrote:



On Feb 5, 9:04 pm, Eric *wrote:
On 2/5/2011 6:41 PM, Tim Taylor wrote:

On Feb 5, 7:17 pm, Whiskey * *wrote:
On Feb 5, 8:36 pm, Jamie * *wrote:

I would certainly participate in one design racing if the Discus or
the LS-4 was the design.

Jamie Shore

I would as well.

WD

I think we tried to talk the IGC into using the LS-4 as the single
glider for the World Class. *You can see how well that worked out;
there are nearly as many PW-5's around as LS-4's, Not! *Logic is not
something that happens at IGC meetings, the herd mentality somehow
takes over and we now have seven classes. *Next month I am sure they
will want to add 14M and 17M classes for those that have been left out
of the 13.5M and 20M classes. *Yes, the LS-4 could have been the World
Class and there would have been no need for the Club class.

Personally, I think a Club Class centered on the LS4 makes far more
sense than a World Class based on the LS4. There were many more the
gliders in the Club Class already existence than LS4's and they would be
much cheaper than a new LS4.

Agreed. This is the argument for making the commitment to the Club
Class here in the US and then building up the class using the large
numbers of cheaper, high performance gliders that are out there but
not being actively raced (for whatever reasons).

My fading recollection from being an SSA Director during the World Class
development is no way did the manufacturer want to let go of the still
very valuable LS4 design so that other companies could build it. I'm
sure they would have been delighted to be the only manufacturer for the
World Class, but the other companies would have been hugely upset.

Would it be so bad to actually form an organization/racing class that
pits the manufacturers against each other, with the winner getting the
market share of created by a new, vibrant racing class???

That is assuming the best idea is that NEW gliders of a certain type
racing a one design class is THE way forward to re-invigorating glider
racing. The Club Class already offers this basic idea but with already
depreciated gliders for better affordability (but with the
complication and uncertainty of handicapping)

The existing soaring organizations (IGC, national organizations) seem
to want to make everyone happy with their racing class decisions and
proposals when we know that this rarely leads to substantial change in
situations where real changes in thinking are needed.

Clearly, there are no manufacturers that believe or want to create a
new class that potentially takes market share away from their existing
product lines which are very pricey and are one barrier to widespread
racing participation.

However, I will posit that Schemp-Hirth, Schleicher, LS (current
holder of ls4 molds) could break out the molds and start producing
Discus, -24's, LS4's if the economic incentive was there to do so.

There is strong argument here that if we really want to re-invigorate
glider racing, we should junk the existing system and devise classes
and a racing concepts/systems that economically incentivize
particpation.

Look at F1 Motor Racing, it exists, but is just the "tip of the spear"
for auto racing - the best, the most technolgical, the msot expensive,
etc. There is a place for the best, and I can't wait to see the
Concordia fly and race.

BUT, most auto racing is done in various entry level classes that are
alive because they have continually adapted to changing values and
needs within auto racing. The soaring "powers that be" need to start
thinking and acting "strategically" when considering how to preserve,
let alone GROW our sport of glider racing.

Tim EY

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

A more pressing problem for the soaring "powers to be" to address is to
come up with an economical 2 place glider to replace all of the grounded
L-13s.

--
Mike Schumann

Mike, that's true - the training glider fleet is more important to the
overall sport. So, how would these 'powers', who are all unpaid
volunteers, accomplish this?

Well, unfortunately they're no longer building forty year old used
training gliders. Go look up what a new 2-33 cost from the 70's
through the 80's, adjust the price into 2011 dollars and then compare
it to what a new PW-6, ASK-21 etc. costs. They no longer seem so
expensive. The last time the L-23 was available new it really wasn't
particularly inexpensive either.

On Feb 7, 11:15*pm, Hagbard Celine wrote:
Well, unfortunately they're no longer building forty year old used
training gliders. Go look up what a new 2-33 cost from the 70's
through the 80's, adjust the price into 2011 dollars and then compare
it to what a new PW-6, ASK-21 etc. costs. They no longer seem so
expensive. The last time the L-23 was available new it really wasn't
particularly inexpensive either.

You are a late comer to this thread, obviously. The claim was made
that a new 2-33 cost $22,000 in 1970, which would be equivalent to
over $125,000 today, making a new K-21 a fantastic bargain. The only
problem is that the base price of a new 2-33 was actually roughly
$5500 in 1970, which would be under $32,000 today. Last I checked,
the base price of a new ASK-21 is 70,000 Euros, or $95,000, and it
would cost around $5,000 to stuff one in a container and ship it
here. A lot of people would indeed argue the ASK-21 is a bargain at
only three times the price, but given the current health of soaring in
the US, it should be obvious why people are still hanging on to their
40 year old training gliders...

Marc