"The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al

Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger
called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told
this tale in us.military.army

He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut
off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for
fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of
South Vietnam."

They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American
command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these
tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service.

It was a horrible time.

--

Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

WE *ARE* UMA
Lemmings 404 Local

"Douglas Berry" wrote in message
...
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger
called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told
this tale in us.military.army

He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut
off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for
fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of
South Vietnam."

They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American
command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these
tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service.

It was a horrible time.

Just what the hell do you know about it? It was painted as horrible by the
News Media that kept getting in the road along with wimpy Politicians that
played to the Media. Neither was the reality yet that is what you saw and
even today, the media will still report it the same way. By 1973, South
Vietnam WAS a better place and self governed. There was very little fightin
going on after that until 1975 when the North Invaded. Up until 1975, the
North had problems even raising and equipping a small army. The Tet
offensive (all parts of it) and the 1972 attacks into Loas and Cambodia by
the US, Thailand, South Korea, Australia and a host of others removed their
ability to wage any type of war. It was the Politicos and the media that
lost it, not the troops. The Troops won it only to have it handed to the
North on a Silver Platter.

You keep reading your slanted crap but others of us will report what really
went on.

Kerry is a politico and not a Warrior and anything he had to do with the
organization that Jane Fonda was in would have been considered treasonise
under WWII, Korea or WWI and back and would have been punishable by up to
death. We sure have come a long way when a Traitor gets to run for
president. Harry S. where are you when we need you.

Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:32:48 -0700, a stranger
called by some "Admin" came forth and told this
tale in us.military.army


"Douglas Berry" wrote in message
.. .
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger
called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told
this tale in us.military.army

He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut
off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for
fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of
South Vietnam."

They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American
command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these
tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service.

It was a horrible time.

Just what the hell do you know about it? It was painted as horrible by the
News Media that kept getting in the road along with wimpy Politicians that
played to the Media. Neither was the reality yet that is what you saw and
even today, the media will still report it the same way. By 1973, South
Vietnam WAS a better place and self governed. There was very little fightin
going on after that until 1975 when the North Invaded. Up until 1975, the
North had problems even raising and equipping a small army. The Tet
offensive (all parts of it) and the 1972 attacks into Loas and Cambodia by
the US, Thailand, South Korea, Australia and a host of others removed their
ability to wage any type of war. It was the Politicos and the media that
lost it, not the troops. The Troops won it only to have it handed to the
North on a Silver Platter.

That's an interesting take on the situation.

You keep reading your slanted crap but others of us will report what really
went on.

Daryl, I get my information from reading histories written by the
people who fought the war, reading the Pentagon Papers, and reading
about the North's view of the war.

Kerry is a politico and not a Warrior and anything he had to do with the
organization that Jane Fonda was in would have been considered treasonise
under WWII, Korea or WWI and back and would have been punishable by up to
death. We sure have come a long way when a Traitor gets to run for
president. Harry S. where are you when we need you.

Kerry commanded a river patrol boat, won a Silver Star, a Bronze Star
with V device, and was aounded in combat three times. And unlike you,
he can prove it.

Oh, and treasonous? Maybe you need to read the Constitution..
specifically, the Bill of Rights.

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

As a founding member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, John Kerry
agitated to end the war in Vietnam. That's an activity allowed by the
First Amendment.

So now we can add "anti-American" to your resume.
--

Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

WE *ARE* UMA
Lemmings 404 Local

"Douglas Berry" wrote in message
...
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:32:48 -0700, a stranger
called by some "Admin" came forth and told this
tale in us.military.army


"Douglas Berry" wrote in message
.. .
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger
called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told
this tale in us.military.army

He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut
off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for
fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of
South Vietnam."

They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American
command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these
tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service.

It was a horrible time.

Just what the hell do you know about it? It was painted as horrible by
the
News Media that kept getting in the road along with wimpy Politicians
that
played to the Media. Neither was the reality yet that is what you saw
and
even today, the media will still report it the same way. By 1973, South
Vietnam WAS a better place and self governed. There was very little
fightin
going on after that until 1975 when the North Invaded. Up until 1975,
the
North had problems even raising and equipping a small army. The Tet
offensive (all parts of it) and the 1972 attacks into Loas and Cambodia
by
the US, Thailand, South Korea, Australia and a host of others removed
their
ability to wage any type of war. It was the Politicos and the media that
lost it, not the troops. The Troops won it only to have it handed to the
North on a Silver Platter.

That's an interesting take on the situation.

Those that served know. Those that didn't, read the news and believe.




You keep reading your slanted crap but others of us will report what
really
went on.

Daryl, I get my information from reading histories written by the
people who fought the war, reading the Pentagon Papers, and reading
about the North's view of the war.

It's funny. 30 years later, most of what is written by those that were
there contradicts itself. There are so many stories out there. Just how
many are really there to just sell a book?


Kerry is a politico and not a Warrior and anything he had to do with the
organization that Jane Fonda was in would have been considered treasonise
under WWII, Korea or WWI and back and would have been punishable by up to
death. We sure have come a long way when a Traitor gets to run for
president. Harry S. where are you when we need you.

Kerry commanded a river patrol boat, won a Silver Star, a Bronze Star
with V device, and was aounded in combat three times. And unlike you,
he can prove it.

I don't have to prove it anymore than you should. Double Standard there, ol
buddy. Kerry did get the medals. Now whether they were earned or not, that
is questionable. While medals weren't given out at the rate they are today,
some go them for political reasons back then. Oh, it's thursday, let's give
the Congressman's kid a medal so I can make General someday.



Oh, and treasonous? Maybe you need to read the Constitution..
specifically, the Bill of Rights.

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

As a founding member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, John Kerry
agitated to end the war in Vietnam. That's an activity allowed by the
First Amendment.

During WWII and back, he would have been branded a traitor or an agitator at
the least. I don't think you realize the unneeded deaths that resulted by
actions of the politicaly powerful. They were misguided and the extremists
took it to heart. The Media picked up on it and ran with it. This was the
first time in the history of the US that the media was allowed to report
like this. And take it from me, it was mostly hogwash when General Abrams
took over in 1969. I wasn't there for Westmoreland but got there at about
the time Abrams took over. The word from some to the old timers was that
the whole flavor changed much to the better. For the first time we could
actually engage the enemy. At first, our gunships could not return fire and
got shotup on a regular basis. We lost Aircrew Members to Flak. Flak vests
don't help much when you take it in the crotch when it's the round is larger
than a 50mm. Not much left. Abrams allowed us to fire back. We could only
suppress but the Attack birds could get in close enough for the kill.
Without us suppressing, the Attack Birds took losses on the way in. A really
stupid way to fight a war. That changed.



So now we can add "anti-American" to your resume.

Not all. But many of us Vietnam Vets see Kerry as just that. Whether he
was right or wrong, it costed lives needlessly.

"Admin" wrote:

:I don't have to prove it anymore than you should. Double Standard there, ol
:buddy. Kerry did get the medals. Now whether they were earned or not, that
:is questionable. While medals weren't given out at the rate they are today,
:some go them for political reasons back then. Oh, it's thursday, let's give
:the Congressman's kid a medal so I can make General someday.

That sort of thing pretty much stopped at Bronze Star. Kerry got a
Silver Star. That sort of thing was also more common (I'm told) in
the Army and Air Force than elsewhere. Kerry was Navy.

I judge by what is going on now. Kerry lost a lot of credibility with
me when he originally jumped on board Terry McAuliffe's lunacy about
Bush's 'desertion' from the ANG. It shows he's made of the same
putrid stuff that those who went to Florida and argued that military
votes should be invalidated were.

McAuliffe may energize the loon fringes of the Democratic Party, but
they need to get rid of him. He alienates everyone else, and those
are the voters you need to win.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
"Admin" wrote:

:I don't have to prove it anymore than you should. Double Standard there,
ol
:buddy. Kerry did get the medals. Now whether they were earned or not,
that
:is questionable. While medals weren't given out at the rate they are
today,
:some go them for political reasons back then. Oh, it's thursday, let's
give
:the Congressman's kid a medal so I can make General someday.

That sort of thing pretty much stopped at Bronze Star. Kerry got a
Silver Star. That sort of thing was also more common (I'm told) in
the Army and Air Force than elsewhere. Kerry was Navy.

Watch it, Fred, I resemble that remark My Father was offered a Silver due
to a couple of loose cannons in his signal unit that did something really
stupid and lived to tell about it. IT was refused since it would have only
gone to him, the Corporal in Charge (He was busted a couple of time). They
issued a Bronze with no argument accepted to the Platoon. If the Silver had
been accepted, it would have been more of a PR thing than whether it was
actually earned or not. BTW, Ike took time to pin medals on his own Men in
those days. Now you see where the PR came from.



I judge by what is going on now. Kerry lost a lot of credibility with
me when he originally jumped on board Terry McAuliffe's lunacy about
Bush's 'desertion' from the ANG. It shows he's made of the same
putrid stuff that those who went to Florida and argued that military
votes should be invalidated were.

I think it's all a complete mess. I don't care for Bush but Kerry? We are
not having to vote for dumb and dumber once again.



McAuliffe may energize the loon fringes of the Democratic Party, but
they need to get rid of him. He alienates everyone else, and those
are the voters you need to win.

He alienates me, for sure.

"Admin" wrote

[snip]

BTW, Ike took time to pin medals on his own Men in
those days. Now you see where the PR came from.

General Patton Jr., did it with the most class. He set it up so he
was always seen going to the front, never returning from the front.
He did this by having his scout plane land ahead of him. He would
present all the awards, and then travel to the landing strip afterwards.

Asked why he was handing out so many medals, he replied "I've
determined that each piece of cloth I put on their chests, gets me another
kilometer. Most of the men honored will die in these battles. I find
it increases moral, and the soldiers love to honor these hero's."

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:12:49 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

:I don't have to prove it anymore than you should. Double Standard there, ol
:buddy. Kerry did get the medals. Now whether they were earned or not, that
:is questionable. While medals weren't given out at the rate they are today,
:some go them for political reasons back then. Oh, it's thursday, let's give
:the Congressman's kid a medal so I can make General someday.

That sort of thing pretty much stopped at Bronze Star. Kerry got a
Silver Star. That sort of thing was also more common (I'm told) in
the Army and Air Force than elsewhere. Kerry was Navy.

I judge by what is going on now. Kerry lost a lot of credibility with
me when he originally jumped on board Terry McAuliffe's lunacy about
Bush's 'desertion' from the ANG. It shows he's made of the same
putrid stuff that those who went to Florida and argued that military
votes should be invalidated were.

McAuliffe may energize the loon fringes of the Democratic Party, but
they need to get rid of him. He alienates everyone else, and those
are the voters you need to win.

Remember LBJ? He also got a politically motivated Silver Star.

Al Minyard

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:19:47 GMT, Douglas Berry
wrote:

Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger
called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told
this tale in us.military.army

He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut
off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for
fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of
South Vietnam."

They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American
command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these
tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service.

I disagree. I will admit that there were _incidents_ where these acts
occurred. However, Kerry tried to make it look like all the US
soldiers were behaving like this.


No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

In article ,
emoveunderscore says...

I disagree. I will admit that there were _incidents_ where these acts
occurred. However, Kerry tried to make it look like all the US
soldiers were behaving like this.

Ah... the classic "Just a few bad apples" defence....

Cheers,
dba