Standard Cirrus

On 3/17/2011 4:01 PM, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Mar 17, 2:55 pm, Walt ConnellyWalt.Connelly.
wrote:
Okay folks, your thoughts on the Standard Cirrus? Good, bad
indifferent? Flying tail, pros and cons? I am new to gliding,
Commercial Add on, 140 flights and approx 100 hours, mostly in 1-34.
Would this be a reasonable next step?

They are still an excellent glider. There are many here in NZ and from
time to time an up and coming pilot gives the modern standard class
ships a fright in one.

The bar has been raised substantially for "excellent". The Std Cirrus is
now "OK" at best.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

By your reasoning Eric the Ferrari 250 GTO (Possibly the most desirable car
in the world) is also a pile of crap.

It's unstable, unreliable, has poor brakes and is not much quicker than a
modern family saloon.

The Cirrus (with modified brakes) is no worse than any of it's
contemporaries, and is definately better than a Libelle.
The wheelbrake & crashworthiness are also the same as others of the same
era.

The "holding the stick with both hands above 75kts" is nonsense.

To get the first generation "Safety Cockpit" the OP would need to go for
an ASW24 - twice the price, twice the running costs, doesn't climb very
well and glides marginally better.

A Discus, climbs about as well as the Cirrus, glides about as well as the
24, doesn't have a "Safety Cockpit" - Costs 3 times the Cirrus

ASW27, ASG29, JS1, V2, D2 - all megabucks compared to the Cirrus

The Cirrus is *still* an excellent glider

At 02:03 18 March 2011, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 3/17/2011 4:01 PM, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Mar 17, 2:55 pm, Walt Connelly wrote:
Okay folks, your thoughts on the Standard Cirrus? Good, bad
indifferent? Flying tail, pros and cons? I am new to gliding,
Commercial Add on, 140 flights and approx 100 hours, mostly in 1-34.
Would this be a reasonable next step?

They are still an excellent glider. There are many here in NZ and from
time to time an up and coming pilot gives the modern standard class
ships a fright in one.

The bar has been raised substantially for "excellent". The Std Cirrus
is
now "OK" at best.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

On 3/18/2011 2:25 AM, Peter F wrote:
By your reasoning Eric the Ferrari 250 GTO (Possibly the most desirable car
in the world) is also a pile of crap.

It's unstable, unreliable, has poor brakes and is not much quicker than a
modern family saloon.

The Std Cirrus is no Ferrari (i.e., possibly the most desirable glider
in the world), nor would I recommend the Ferrari to a driver with the
experience level of the person asking about the Std Cirrus.

The Cirrus (with modified brakes) is no worse than any of it's
contemporaries, and is definately better than a Libelle.

Yes, I understand the wheel brakes can be improved, as I implied. My 301
had excellent wheel brakes (the glider I got after my Std Cirrus) -
don't know about other Libelles.

The wheelbrake & crashworthiness are also the same as others of the same
era.

Not a great recommendation!

The "holding the stick with both hands above 75kts" is nonsense.

Not on my Std Cirrus - G forces (like encountering a thermal) would
cause it to apply elevator in the same direction, aggravating the
situation. It's very easy to feel this "positive feedback" on the stick
while cruising in the 75 knot speed range in turbulent (thermals or
ridge) conditions. The cause is the elevator circuit is unbalanced
mechanically for vertical G forces.

It had a distinctly different high-speed behavior than the conventional
elevator stick ships I've flown since then, all of which were very
steady at high speeds in turbulence.

To get the first generation "Safety Cockpit" the OP would need to go for
an ASW24 - twice the price, twice the running costs, doesn't climb very
well and glides marginally better.

It's not necessary to go that new to get a worthwhile improvement, such
as the LS4 offers. Besides the cockpit improvement, most newer gliders
offer automatic hookups, which may be more important in improving safety.

A Discus, climbs about as well as the Cirrus, glides about as well as the
24, doesn't have a "Safety Cockpit" - Costs 3 times the Cirrus

ASW27, ASG29, JS1, V2, D2 - all megabucks compared to the Cirrus

The Cirrus is *still* an excellent glider

And if the Std Cirrus defines "excellent", how do we describe an ASW28
or an LS8?

I got the impression the person asking the question was not enamored
with the the Std Cirrus, but was trying to do a cost/benefit analysis. I
was encouraging him to think beyond the basics and consider the value of
buying more safety and a nicer flying glider.

Just in case it's not clear: I owned a Std Cirrus for two years
(1978-1980), flew it for 500 hours, and had a lot of fun in it; however,
it's 45 year old design, and now there are many better choices. I don't
think it's a dangerous glider, but it does have characteristics less
suited to a relatively new pilot than, say, an LS4, or other newer gliders.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

The only problem I have with an ASW-28 or LS-8 is I can't buy a nice
example with a good trailer for under 20K


And if the Std Cirrus defines "excellent", how do we describe an ASW28
or an LS8?

I got the impression the person asking the question was not enamored
with the the Std Cirrus, but was trying to do a cost/benefit analysis. I
was encouraging him to think beyond the basics and consider the value of
buying more safety and a nicer flying glider.

Just in case it's not clear: I owned a Std Cirrus for two years
(1978-1980), flew it for 500 hours, and had a lot of fun in it; however,
it's 45 year old design, and now there are many better choices. I don't
think it's a dangerous glider, but it does have characteristics less
suited to a relatively new pilot than, say, an LS4, or other newer gliders.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarmhttp://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On Mar 18, 6:43*pm, Tony wrote:
The only problem I have with an ASW-28 or LS-8 is I can't buy a nice
example with a good trailer for under 20K





And if the Std Cirrus defines "excellent", how do we describe an ASW28
or an LS8?

I got the impression the person asking the question was not enamored
with the the Std Cirrus, but was trying to do a cost/benefit analysis. I
was encouraging him to think beyond the basics and consider the value of
buying more safety and a nicer flying glider.

Just in case it's not clear: I owned a Std Cirrus for two years
(1978-1980), flew it for 500 hours, and had a lot of fun in it; however,
it's 45 year old design, and now there are many better choices. I don't
think it's a dangerous glider, but it does have characteristics less
suited to a relatively new pilot than, say, an LS4, or other newer gliders.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA -

The main advantages of the Standard Cirrus is that you can get 90% of
the performance of the latter types for 40% of the cost. It is also a
good Club Class glider on handicap.

Derek C