US Air Force buys 19 DG-1000 trainiers

On Mar 24, 4:48*pm, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 17:22 24 March 2011, kirk.stant wrote:



I'm glad to see the Academy acquire a fleet of modern gliders, and
support an active XC, contest, and acro program (something it couldn't
do when it was stuck with those nasty Schweizers!).

When they had their 1-26s, they always competed. *I thought it was amusing
how they noted their off-field landings in the 26s. *Each one had a little
row of Holstein cow stickers below the cockpit rail, one for each
outlanding. *And acro in gliders as a sport makes about as much sense as
up-hill skiing.

Jim Beckman

1-26s were fine in their day - but you can't do intro rides in them,
can you? And 2-33s were (and still are) absolute junk, period. It's
great that the cadets now have modern gliders to train and compete
in. And a hell of a lot safer, by the way.

As far as acro in a glider - hmm, seems teaching acro in a glider to a
cadet who will move on to F-22s might be a good thing. Sure would
teach unusual attitudes, situation awareness, and energy management,
wouldn't it? Yeah, you can do it in a power plane, but compare the
cost of an Extra 300 to a DG-1000.

And if you have never done acro in a glider - ASK-21, Blanik 13AC,
Pilatus, Swift, etc.. you are missing a wonderful aspect of our sport
- and one that can be done on those days when there isn't any lift
around. Don't knock it if you havn't tried it!

Kirk
66

kirk.stant wrote:
As far as acro in a glider - hmm, seems teaching acro in a glider to a
cadet who will move on to F-22s might be a good thing. Sure would
teach unusual attitudes, situation awareness, and energy management,
wouldn't it? Yeah, you can do it in a power plane, but compare the
cost of an Extra 300 to a DG-1000.

Looking at the pure acro time, glider acro is about the most expensive
acro you can buy.

That said, I strongly believe that pilots who have made their first
steps in gliders have a different attitude. And cleanly rolling a DG1000
(or a ASK21, for that matter) is really difficult and teaches you an
awful lot.

On Mar 26, 2:53*am, John Smith wrote:
Looking at the pure acro time, glider acro is about the most expensive
acro you can buy.

Not if you have access to a decent ridge, or wave.

On Mar 25, 3:13*pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Mar 26, 2:53*am, John Smith wrote:

Looking at the pure acro time, glider acro is about the most expensive
acro you can buy.

Not if you have access to a decent ridge, or wave.

And not if you have a good winch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VlRd9-wxQI (Instruments in meters,
meters/sec)
Winch launch height was limited by airspace restrictions

At 21:13 25 March 2011, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Mar 26, 2:53=A0am, John Smith wrote:
Looking at the pure acro time, glider acro is about the most expensive
acro you can buy.

Not if you have access to a decent ridge, or wave.

Acro on the ridge? Now *that* sounds dangerous. Not much ground
clearance.

Jim Beckman

On Mar 27, 2:15*am, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 21:13 25 March 2011, Bruce Hoult wrote:

On Mar 26, 2:53=A0am, John Smith *wrote:
Looking at the pure acro time, glider acro is about the most expensive
acro you can buy.

Not if you have access to a decent ridge, or wave.

Acro on the ridge? *Now *that* sounds dangerous. *Not much ground
clearance.

In these parts we have several 1000 - 1500 ft ridges to choose from,
depending on the exact wind direction, and can often get to 2000 ft
above the top of the ridge and 3000+ ft above the flat ground upwind
of the ridge.

http://soar.co.nz/gallery/24.jpg

On Mar 27, 2:15*am, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 21:13 25 March 2011, Bruce Hoult wrote:

On Mar 26, 2:53=A0am, John Smith *wrote:
Looking at the pure acro time, glider acro is about the most expensive
acro you can buy.

Not if you have access to a decent ridge, or wave.

Acro on the ridge? *Now *that* sounds dangerous. *Not much ground
clearance.

A fairly typical day cruising the 1500 ft high ridge 10 km NNE of our
field.

http://cs10405.vk.com/u53282174/1247...x_80699e9e.jpg

There's as likely as not to be weak wave out towards the beach too.

At 13:34 25 March 2011, kirk.stant wrote:

1-26s were fine in their day - but you can't do intro rides in them,
can you?

Can't do them in an LS8 either. My complaint is the idea that you
can't compete in a 1-26. It's the purest form of competition, head to
head with no handicaps and no excuses (particularly when some 80-year-old
submariner like Vern Hutchinson beats you).

And if you have never done acro in a glider - ASK-21, Blanik 13AC,
Pilatus, Swift, etc.. you are missing a wonderful aspect of our sport
- and one that can be done on those days when there isn't any lift
around. Don't knock it if you havn't tried it!

My problem is that it's so damned expensive. Talk about a way to beat
the towplane back to the airport, this is it. If you want to give the
cadets aerobatic experience (and I've never know the AFA to be interested
in that task) then do it in a capable aerobatic airplane.

Jim Beckman

Some background on a variety of points raised in this string of messages.

The gliders were procurred thru an open competition. The RFP was available
online. I down loaded and read the technical portion and it all seemed
reasonable.

What is unknown when discussing the $5M is what else was required/purchased
in addition to the 19 gliders.
I'm sure there were a number of trailers, spare parts, instruments, manuals,
and probably some amount of factory support. Until you know the full scope
of the proposal, it is hard to comment on the final price.

The acrobatics that most of the cadets do amount to steep turns, spins, a
few loops and a roll or 2.

The glider training is an optional course. All cadets do not have to
participate.

They fly the gliders a lot.

I live about 500' from the Academy. They fly the gliders over my house all
the time. We have AFA cadets join our club from time to time. 3 of our
club tow pilots also tow at the Academy. The above is not speculation.

John Scott

On Mar 25, 1:56*pm, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 13:34 25 March 2011, kirk.stant wrote:



1-26s were fine in their day - but you can't do intro rides in them,
can you? *

Can't do them in an LS8 either. * My complaint is the idea that you
can't compete in a 1-26. *It's the purest form of competition, head to
head with no handicaps and no excuses (particularly when some 80-year-old
submariner like Vern Hutchinson beats you).

And if you have never done acro in a glider - ASK-21, Blanik 13AC,
Pilatus, Swift, etc.. you are missing a wonderful aspect of our sport
- and one that can be done on those days when there isn't any lift
around. *Don't knock it if you havn't tried it!

My problem is that it's so damned expensive. *Talk about a way to beat
the towplane back to the airport, this is it. *If you want to give the
cadets aerobatic experience (and I've never know the AFA to be interested
in that task) then do it in a capable aerobatic airplane.

Jim Beckman

I suggest you inform yourself about the USAFA glider program.

You might be surprised.

Then again, perhaps not.

Cheers,

Kirk
66