(USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

On Mar 31, 12:15*pm, wrote:
On Mar 31, 9:19*am, "



wrote:
On Mar 30, 11:20*pm, Tuno wrote:

For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o

What's the big deal..?

A cockpit checkout is pretty simple....just get the POH and sit down
for a while and get familiar......a cockpit check out is not a flight
check out.....

I mean its like..ok, where's the flap handle?...ok now where's the
spoiler handle?...ok release?...canopy jettison? etc...now let's make
you're seat comfy...

I have "cockpit checked" *lots of pilots in gliders models which I
have not flown......Gliders are not all that different from one to
another........If someone is around with personal experience in this
model, I will definitely bring him in on the discussion....but not
necessary....

If they guy just bought the New Super XL5000 glider....it is up to him
to be flight competent...The pilot should consult with some
experienced people to answer any questions on handling...special
techniques, any quirks etc. *I have occasionaly suggested some more
dual training and solo experience before the guy flies his new toy!

Cookie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The one thing I would add is that this does permit and requires the
CFI, who presumably knows the pilot and his experience/skills to
exercise an important judgement on whether the pilot is qualified to
fly the type of glider he's asking to be checked out in
UH

We've had this discussion regularly in our club since we have a couple
of one seaters (one glass) and a fair contingent of new owners over
the
years. The insurance policy is what requires the cockpit checkout --
Costello won't cover you unless you have a CFI endorsement logged
for that particular glider. Checkout in type doesn't count. When we
replaced our L33 we had to re-check everyone out to fly it.

In my case when I was checked out to fly the glass ship it was done
by a pilot with a fair bit of experience in the plane, with the duty
CFI
observing. Also note that there's more to a checkout than where
the controls are; assembly of any plane has its quirks. The 304CZ
parked next to mine at the airport has a new owner who's going
through a fair bit of teething pain getting used to assembly. His
previous plane stayed assembled in a hangar all year long so he's
really not used to this.

-- Matt

On Mar 31, 12:57*pm, mattm wrote:
On Mar 31, 12:15*pm, wrote:





On Mar 31, 9:19*am, "

wrote:
On Mar 30, 11:20*pm, Tuno wrote:

For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o

What's the big deal..?

A cockpit checkout is pretty simple....just get the POH and sit down
for a while and get familiar......a cockpit check out is not a flight
check out.....

I mean its like..ok, where's the flap handle?...ok now where's the
spoiler handle?...ok release?...canopy jettison? etc...now let's make
you're seat comfy...

I have "cockpit checked" *lots of pilots in gliders models which I
have not flown......Gliders are not all that different from one to
another........If someone is around with personal experience in this
model, I will definitely bring him in on the discussion....but not
necessary....

If they guy just bought the New Super XL5000 glider....it is up to him
to be flight competent...The pilot should consult with some
experienced people to answer any questions on handling...special
techniques, any quirks etc. *I have occasionaly suggested some more
dual training and solo experience before the guy flies his new toy!

Cookie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The one thing I would add is that this does permit and requires the
CFI, who presumably knows the pilot and his experience/skills to
exercise an important judgement on whether the pilot is qualified to
fly the type of glider he's asking to be checked out in
UH

We've had this discussion regularly in our club since we have a couple
of one seaters (one glass) and a fair contingent of new owners over
the
years. *The insurance policy is what requires the cockpit checkout --
Costello won't cover you unless you have a CFI endorsement logged
for that particular glider. *Checkout in type doesn't count. *When we
replaced our L33 we had to re-check everyone out to fly it.

In my case when I was checked out to fly the glass ship it was done
by a pilot with a fair bit of experience in the plane, with the duty
CFI
observing. *Also note that there's more to a checkout than where
the controls are; assembly of any plane has its quirks. *The 304CZ
parked next to mine at the airport has a new owner who's going
through a fair bit of teething pain getting used to assembly. *His
previous plane stayed assembled in a hangar all year long so he's
really not used to this.

-- Matt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think you have gone beyond a "cockpit" check out, when you get into
"assembly" check out....

Does the insurance companies specify what they consider as the items
to be covered during a "cockpit check out" ? They do seem to
specify CFI as the qualified person....

I don't think the pilot with a new plane or his insurance company
should consider a "cockpit check out" to entail a check out of every
nook and cranny, assembly, flight envelope, blah blah blah..etc...

The pilot is certainly entitled to, encougaged to, seek out advise and
expertise far beyond the cockpit check out....Common sense dictates
this...but the OP was about insurance requirement...

The ultimate responsibility falls on the pilot in command here...not
the instructor who signs ..."cockpit check completed as equired by
insurance co."

But as far as the FAA, a person holding a glider certificate..private
or higher, is qualified to fly any glider....
The isnurance company has additional requirements, like certain total
hours, experience in level of performance etc.....but they don't
determine whether the pilot is qualifed to fly the glider or
not....their requirements determine whether the pilot qualifies for
insurance coverage..or not

Cookie