About German Mystery Objects

(Erich Adler) wrote in message . com...
I see that many people here is the United States cannot comprehend the
developments brought on by the Allied bombing campaign against Germany
during the Second World War.

But over in Germany many such books exist on the subject you Americans
find impossible to discuss civily, German disc planes.

Really? I find that hard to believe since no one has produced one so
far that records all the German disc projects AND eliminate gross
mistakes like the designs by Scriever, the speculation on the
Feuerball, and all the V-7 crap. Please list German source books
besides German versions of Renato Vesco's and statements by George
Klein.

It is very well known that despite huge efforts in the German defense
industry during the war the bombing campaign was wreaking havoc on our
hydronation plants, airfields, aircraft production facilities, and
transport network. Even when new amazing jets arrived they were scarce
on fuel and remained stationary on the ground. Up to 300 Messerschmitt
262's were grounded for that reason alone.

More than that if you include the Me-163, Ar-234, and He-162. The
figure is more like 800.

Secondly, Germany lacked pilots to fly the jets. Even the aces from
the prop fighters had a rough time transitioning to jet aircraft and
simultaneously trying to develope new tactics to attack the bombers
with an overtaking speed of close to 300 mph. Do youn realize how
difficult it must have been to dive into the bomber groups at over 550
mph and quickly fire a burst of 30mm cannon ammo? It was very
difficult and then the jet usually was attacked upon landing at its
base, ending up as a fireball on the ground.

Uh, no actually the pilots of JV 44 did well and others did too- take
a look at the gun camera footage from various Me-262s and Me-163s. It
was the escorts plus the wall of fire coming from the bomber stream
box formations that killed them... plus the nice gallant P-51 Mustang
"pounces" upon t/o or landing

Germany needed answers and they tried to think up every concievable
aircraft configuration and powerplant to tackle the bombers.

Yes, but the disc programs don't belong to any of those.
Messerschmitt, Heinkel, Focke-Wulf, etc... were never ordered to
develop disc aircraft. Those craft were in the SS realm, under SS
control the entire time.

The SS, however, had been involved in the black arts since the Nazis
took power and had both Hitler's and Himmler's backing to develope
occult craft from the Thule and Vril Gesellschafts. These black
societies centering around occult teachings and two psychic mediums
sometime in the 1930's built a flying disc that utilized technology
derived from occult science. It flew badly and crashed but worked
continued with the help of a Dr. Schumann who invented levitators
centered around a liquid mercury sphere and various spinning internal
disc plates that somehow caused a rotating magnetic field effect.

Hitler and Himmler were members of Thule, which is where the NSDAP
originates from. True. The disc you speak of, according to the record,
is the RFZ-1 which flew in 1934 the same year Hitler met Viktor
Schauberger over his agricultural ideas and exotic liquid vortex
technology. Schauberger refused to work with the Nazis and was
arrested by them later on to work on his design. But your timeline is
wrong. Thule actually built the German first disc Jenseitsflugmaschine
(JFM) in 1922 before the Nazis came to power. It was tested from
1922-24 and then hurriedly dismantled and stored at Messerschmitt's
Augsburg facility later, only to disappear. The JFM was the result of
the Thule medium Maria Orsic who supposedly channeled the design of
the JFM from Aryan aliens from Aldebaran, in the Taurus constellation.
I do not advocate their beliefs but that is where THEY claimed to have
recieved the information. Anyway, the disc was built and photos of it
exist.

Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the
Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

The "Schwarzwald" UFO crash was never proven and that does NOT explain
how Thule already had the RFZ series flying in 1934 forward WITHOUT
the crashed alien machine. As for New Schwabenland, the area was
claimed in 1938. The Dornier Wal boats reconned 230,000 sq miles of
Antartic territory to find a suitable base for (speculation) occult
science- one that proved the Thule and Vril belief in the "hollow
earth" theories as well. Supposedly they found a spot free of ice that
could grow limited vegetation and held large caves with an internal
hot spring. Supposedly during 1942-43 the cave complex was constructed
using forced labor brought in from submarines. BTW, no Haunebus were
sighted there. The RFZ-2 supposedly hooked up with the raider Atlantis
near there in South ATlantic waters.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.

Again, not proven. The Germans DID send subs throughout the war to the
region and South America with small meteorological stations inserted
here and there as well as placing meterological bouys in the waters...
but Base 211 is mentioned nowhere. As for the Type XXVI, four were
under construction at wars end- in Germany. There is specualtion that
an entire series of U-boat numbers is missing from that Type, but
again NOT proven.

The question is: why not use the discs in battle then? The answer was
that they could fly at only certain angles eliminating them as
fighters. Their engines operation killed any normal magnetic compass.
They had no armament fitted except a few experimentals with 2 MGs, a
30mm MK 108, and a Haunebu with some form of turret gun. This has
mistakenly been called a hoax with a panzer 38t turret and gun. If you
examine highly cleaned-up versions of the photos and note the scale
the turret is rounded and not exactly metal. The gun defies comparison
to conventional weapons of the time.

All true except that the Allies knew of the machines and wanted one
captured intact. They didn't need armament of any kind since they were
used only for transport and occasional recon flights. Their incredible
speed of 1,200 mph+ eliminated any chance of any Allied fighter
shooting one down.

The Germans were trying to develope a wide range of these disc
machines but time ran out. Vril and Thule evacuated to Base 211 and
South America. The other SS projects like the BMW Flugelrad jet-gyros
were destroyed. Schauberger's Repulsine motors were captured as were
Coanda's models of huis Lenticular Disc and Andreas Epps Omega Diskus.
Patents found at the end of the war revealed Focke-Wulf had circular
disc conventional aircraft plans as did Heinkel's engineer Rudolf
Schriever, who swears his Flugkreisel designs were stolen by the SS in
1941.

All agreed, at least you got that part correct. I've always wondered
why there is no explanation given for the missing Vril and Thule
Societies plus Gen. Kammler. Add to this the other missing 42,000
slave laborers, 60,000 technicians and scientists, and 142,000 missing
German citizens plus 50-60 missing U-boats.

There seems to be an awful lot of confusion on the part of
investigators and reporters on these machines. Schriever's discs are
always confused with the BMW Flugelrads. They are not the same at all.
The BMWs were built in Prague and utilized BMW 003 jet engines to
power moving rotor blades. Schriever's disc had Jumo 004 jet engines
on the rotor discs and on the lower body. They cannot therfore be the
same. Schriever claimed the SS stole his idea and gave it to a group
of scientists: Habermohl, Miethe, and an Italian Belluzzo. None but
Miethe's design are plausible. Miethe furnished photos of his design
to an Italian magazine after the war. It looks like an enlarged
Repulsine with a cockpit. This makes sense since Schauberger's motor
was perfected by 1944 and a larger version was said to be incorporated
into the SS disc in that same year. Schauberger was a prisoner of the
SS so whatever he developed was passed along to others.

Blame David Masters for his 1982 book "German Jet Genesis" and the
others that actually linked false drawings to the Schriever disc. None
of those bear any resemblence to either the Flugelrads or Schriever's
disc. When Schriever died papers found at his home revealed his design
for the Flugkreisel. Those depicted in Masters book don't match at all
except he mistakenly labeled Coanda's Lenticular machine as a
Flugelrad.

Other than these was a lone private venture by one Arthur Sack who was
a flying model enthusiast with a disc plane on show in a 1939
competition. He impressed Udet who gave hime some scrap to work with.
Amazingly, he had built in a simple workshop a wooden circular wing
aircraft that utilized parts from a Messerschmitt 108 Taifun and an
Argus engine. The machine was very simple and could have flown well
had it not been for the misplacement of the landing gear, an
underpowered engine, and poor tail surfaces. It made a few hops in
1944 and was cut up for firewood.

Yeah, even the Me-163 pilots at Brandis couldn't fly it!

So when the Allies arrived in Germany they were desperate to find the
mystery disc objects at any cost. Since the SS controlled these
machines they did not want to surrender to either the Red Army or US
Army for fear of reprisal killings. Instead, they moved north and
surrendered to the British Army which hadn't any idea what all this
material and documentation was. They did crate everything and boxcar
it on a train stretching for miles. They then shipped it from a French
port to Britain where they astoundingly couldn't make the machines
work properly. Both the US and USSR had been hunting for the discs so
Britain moved them to Canada for testing and the rest is history X.

No, actually it isn't. The Reds supposedly got Habermohl and some of
the documents. AVRO Canada got Miethe. The US got the Hortens,
Schauberger, and Lippisch input on flying wings, discs, and aerodynes.
Canada pulled into the lead so the US sent forth a party to finance
those designs in joint projects. In reality they came for threat
analysis and to steal as much of the tech as posssible for hand-over
to Lockheed. The plan work as none of AVROs great disc designs came to
nothing while the AVROCAR was a dismal public failure. It should be
since it is not based on any German disc design, not even Epps similar
looking Omega Diskus.

However, what they got must have been a jet design due to AVRO
proceeding in that direction. No Vril or Haunebu fell into Allied
hands. Admiral Byrd set out in 1947 with a military task force to
recon New Schwabenland, find Base 211, and destroy it. He was
repulsed. Sightings of Vril and Haunebu type UFOs surfaced all over
South America and South Atlantic. U-boats came back montha after V-E
day with their cargos missing. Another U-boat was intercepted carrying
tons of nothing but liquid mercury. Germany must have secured the ice
fortress because no one goes there today.

Actually there are two stations on the coast run by Germany and
Russia. I think what you're trying to say is that no one has attempted
to locate Base 211 or send troops there again. You're right, no one
can since Antarctica has a treaty that specifies no weapons nor weapon
testing, no armed troops. If the Germans still reside there
underground they are safe.

In the '50s South Americans reported U-boats still operating in their
waters and in the '90s a strange photo showed up in Germany's news- a
gun supposedly captured during Byrd's expedition. It was a German
assault rifle unlike any other that fired a squeeze-round. It
supposedly was taken from the dead body of an SS Antartic trooper. The
name Schwinder was on it. No one has ever explained that.

That was a subject of a conversation found online. I have never seen
the alleged photo but have seen a depiction of it. Based on the design
it looks like a cannabalized weapon using parts from the FG-42, MP-40,
STG-44, and MG-42 with no furniture at all. It is either a made-up
design or the Germans had to make the equivalent of the Volksgewehr at
Base 211. You got the squeeze round part wrong too. Schwinder
translates as "shrinker". The drawing I saw had both an MP-40 mag up
front and a STG-44 mag to the rear in bullpup fashion. The charging
handle was unique with lock points up front and to the rear. A roller
device was behind the rear mag. What that means is that the gun
probably could go from firing rifle rounds to SMG rounds- shrinking
ammo?

People in South America believe the Nazis still have bases there and
in Antartica. Some people in Germany believe that too. It sounds wild
yet there is so much information circulating.

Yes, because the Nazis did visit South America during the war,
especially the U-boats. The subs that surrendered in Argentina
thaought they would get a warm reception and haven but the US was
indeed waiting for them- not for missing Nazis but to search the holds
for disc technology. If you discount the Ghost Rockets (as German V-4
missile), Kenneth Arnold's sighting (of Horten flying wings), and
Roswell (a crashed Horten X delta) then look where the sightings
STARTED from. You'll find them concentrated in South America and
moving NORTHWARD.

Anyone care to add to this conversation?

I only wish the DoD and USAF would, along with declassifying the rest
of the story. the longer they wait the more alien UFO conspiracy
people pollute what would otherwise be an amazing chronology of human
disc development spanning almost 90 years.
Again, please provide German references. In the US two books have come
out recently that share some of what you are saying: Nick Cook's "Hunt
for Zero Point" and "Hitler's Flying Saucers".

Erich Adler

Rob

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


However, what they got must have been a jet design due to AVRO
proceeding in that direction. No Vril or Haunebu fell into Allied
hands. Admiral Byrd set out in 1947 with a military task force to
recon New Schwabenland, find Base 211, and destroy it. He was
repulsed. Sightings of Vril and Haunebu type UFOs surfaced all over
South America and South Atlantic. U-boats came back montha after V-E
day with their cargos missing. Another U-boat was intercepted carrying
tons of nothing but liquid mercury. Germany must have secured the ice
fortress because no one goes there today.

Actually there are two stations on the coast run by Germany and
Russia. I think what you're trying to say is that no one has attempted
to locate Base 211 or send troops there again.

No what he said was the US sent a task force in 1947 which was repulsed.
This seems quite clear, lunatic but clear.

You're right, no one
can since Antarctica has a treaty that specifies no weapons nor weapon
testing, no armed troops. If the Germans still reside there
underground they are safe.

Apart from having died from cold and starvation in mid 1945 I presume.

I dont believe Pizza Hut deliver down there.

Sheesh

Keith