Logan contest reporting now only on Soaring Cafe

On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

On Jul 23, 7:06*pm, "
wrote:
On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:





I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

....
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

Me four! That is seriously bad policy and a stupid move by
someone. 5 busted gliders deserves to be called out!

P3

On Jul 23, 4:50*pm, Papa3 wrote:
On Jul 23, 7:06*pm, "
wrote:









On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

....
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

Me four! * That is seriously bad policy and a stupid move by
someone. * 5 busted gliders deserves to be called out!

P3

Me five. I enjoy many of the contest reports. But while there are
benefits of keeping things all together on the SSA site, if that
becomes a stupid hassle then SoaringCafe is a good home as well. I
would hope SSA management looks at this and actively discourages any
attempts to gag posts like this.

Darryl

On Jul 23, 7:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jul 23, 4:50*pm, Papa3 wrote:









On Jul 23, 7:06*pm, "
wrote:

On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

Me four! * That is seriously bad policy and a stupid move by
someone. * 5 busted gliders deserves to be called out!

P3

Me five. I enjoy many of the contest reports. But while there are
benefits of keeping things all together on the SSA site, if that
becomes a stupid hassle then SoaringCafe is a good home as well. I
would hope SSA management looks at this and actively discourages any
attempts to gag posts like this.

Darryl

Guess what, someone removed all Frank's posts from the SSA's contest
website. Is this a censorship? I can not believe this is happening.
Someone please wake me up from deep sleep and tell me this has not
happened!

On Jul 23, 5:29*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Jul 23, 7:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:





On Jul 23, 4:50*pm, Papa3 wrote:

On Jul 23, 7:06*pm, "
wrote:

On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

Me four! * That is seriously bad policy and a stupid move by
someone. * 5 busted gliders deserves to be called out!

P3

Me five. I enjoy many of the contest reports. But while there are
benefits of keeping things all together on the SSA site, if that
becomes a stupid hassle then SoaringCafe is a good home as well. I
would hope SSA management looks at this and actively discourages any
attempts to gag posts like this.

Darryl

Guess what, someone removed all Frank's posts from the SSA's contest
website. Is this a censorship? I can not believe this is happening.
Someone please wake me up from deep sleep and tell me this has not
happened!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, some of Frank's posts are still posted at the Regionals page.
Not sure for how long they will stay there though..... Yes, this is
blatant censorship and I can think of two reasons for it. Frank's
account will make in unlikely that future national might be held at
Logan because too many pilots may decide it's just too risky a venue
for their glider. Which leads to a second possibility. As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered, I'd be a little worried about the
soaring insurance companies reading of repeated tasks over reportedly
unlandable terrain. You do have to get liability insurance to host one
of these contests after all...I'm just glad no one has been hurt in
this crapshoot.

On Jul 23, 7:07*pm, Albert Thomas wrote:
On Jul 23, 5:29*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:









On Jul 23, 7:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

On Jul 23, 4:50*pm, Papa3 wrote:

On Jul 23, 7:06*pm, "
wrote:

On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

Me four! * That is seriously bad policy and a stupid move by
someone. * 5 busted gliders deserves to be called out!

P3

Me five. I enjoy many of the contest reports. But while there are
benefits of keeping things all together on the SSA site, if that
becomes a stupid hassle then SoaringCafe is a good home as well. I
would hope SSA management looks at this and actively discourages any
attempts to gag posts like this.

Darryl

Guess what, someone removed all Frank's posts from the SSA's contest
website. Is this a censorship? I can not believe this is happening.
Someone please wake me up from deep sleep and tell me this has not
happened!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, some of Frank's posts are still posted at the Regionals page.
Not sure for how long they will stay there though..... Yes, this is
blatant censorship and I can think of two reasons for it. Frank's
account will make in unlikely that future national might be held at
Logan because too many pilots may decide it's just too risky a venue
for their glider. Which leads to a second possibility. As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered, I'd be a little worried about the
soaring insurance companies reading of repeated tasks over reportedly
unlandable terrain. You do have to get liability insurance to host one
of these contests after all...I'm just glad no one has been hurt in
this crapshoot.

First of all, let's put a number on the gliders damaged flying at
Logan this past week.

I count two that I would regard as damaged (needing calls to the
insurance rep), both landing mishaps - one on a rocky mountain meadow,
the other in tall barley. If you count the plane that lost its tail
skid and the one that lost a wingtip skid (mine), you could stretch it
to four. I've no idea where the "5" damaged gliders number comes
from. Based on my experience of flying out west, 2 out of 60 is
pretty much par for a contest.

The terrain can be intimidating for folks not used to flying in the
mountains, and on my first flights here I am also treading warily
cross-country. Climbing out from low on the mountains is common in
many parts of the world and if you're not comfortable "sticking your
wings in the trees" as one here put it, you're better off somewhere
else. It's definitely not a site for beginners or wusses.

There have been more landouts than usual, but quite a few resulted
from unexpected weather rather than stiff tasks. I flew Friday's
regional FAI task and did the east/west transition for the first time
and had no problems, so I've no idea why others found it tough.

I was initially concerned about crowding on the ridges, but I have
seen many worse sites around the world and have not felt at particular
risk here. (I would like my Flarm though. Please! You know, the one
that was supposedly being delivered last May!)

I've no idea where the SAA censorship came from. Considering that
blogs are personal accounts, I see nothing major to complain about. I
might describe things differently from my perspective, but that's how
it goes.

Mike

On Jul 23, 9:58*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Jul 23, 7:07*pm, Albert Thomas wrote:









On Jul 23, 5:29*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

On Jul 23, 7:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

On Jul 23, 4:50*pm, Papa3 wrote:

On Jul 23, 7:06*pm, "
wrote:

On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

Me four! * That is seriously bad policy and a stupid move by
someone. * 5 busted gliders deserves to be called out!

P3

Me five. I enjoy many of the contest reports. But while there are
benefits of keeping things all together on the SSA site, if that
becomes a stupid hassle then SoaringCafe is a good home as well. I
would hope SSA management looks at this and actively discourages any
attempts to gag posts like this.

Darryl

Guess what, someone removed all Frank's posts from the SSA's contest
website. Is this a censorship? I can not believe this is happening.
Someone please wake me up from deep sleep and tell me this has not
happened!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, some of Frank's posts are still posted at the Regionals page.
Not sure for how long they will stay there though..... Yes, this is
blatant censorship and I can think of two reasons for it. Frank's
account will make in unlikely that future national might be held at
Logan because too many pilots may decide it's just too risky a venue
for their glider. Which leads to a second possibility. As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered, I'd be a little worried about the
soaring insurance companies reading of repeated tasks over reportedly
unlandable terrain. You do have to get liability insurance to host one
of these contests after all...I'm just glad no one has been hurt in
this crapshoot.

First of all, let's put a number on the gliders damaged flying at
Logan this past week.

I count two that I would regard as damaged (needing calls to the
insurance rep), both landing mishaps - one on a rocky mountain meadow,
the other in tall barley. *If you count the plane that lost its tail
skid and the one that lost a wingtip skid (mine), you could stretch it
to four. *I've no idea where the "5" damaged gliders number comes
from. *Based on my experience of flying out west, 2 out of 60 is
pretty much par for a contest.

The terrain can be intimidating for folks not used to flying in the
mountains, and on my first flights here I am also treading warily
cross-country. *Climbing out from low on the mountains is common in
many parts of the world and if you're not comfortable "sticking your
wings in the trees" as one here put it, you're better off somewhere
else. *It's definitely not a site for beginners or wusses.

There have been more landouts than usual, but quite a few resulted
from unexpected weather rather than stiff tasks. * I flew Friday's
regional FAI task and did the east/west transition for the first time
and had no problems, so I've no idea why others found it tough.

I was initially concerned about crowding on the ridges, but I have
seen many worse sites around the world and have not felt at particular
risk here. *(I would like my Flarm though. *Please! *You know, the one
that was supposedly being delivered last May!)

I've no idea where the SAA censorship came from. *Considering that
blogs are personal accounts, I see nothing major to complain about. I
might describe things differently from my perspective, but that's how
it goes.

Mike

Mike ,
First , it was a pleasure getting to know you and hearing your WX
reports every Morning . Second , lets set the damaged ships aside for
a moment and look at the number of competitors ( In Sports Class ) who
finished tasks on certain days . Many who did finish and did well in
the scoring where complaining that , given the conditions , the tasks
where intimidating and they were having to take unnecessary risks . I
don't know what the normal ratio of finishers is but 1 out of 3 or 4
seems awfully low . This was brought up at Thursdays Pilot Meeting and
the response was essentially " If I say its safe to search this
Beach ........ " . The SSA should allow this to be addressed on the
Website . Lets hope the conditions improve for the remaining
Nationals tasks and this probably will cease to be much of an issue .
Thanks for your service at the contest .
R4

On Jul 23, 11:58*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:

"Based on my experience of flying out west, 2 out of 60 is pretty much
par for a contest."


Mike, I'm sure you will agree with me that 2 accidents is 2 too many.

All, what are we doing in this sport to prevent this from happening
again? It really makes me sick to my stomach to see contestants
demolish their gliders only to have it hushed up by contest
management. Seeing people get hurt or killed in contests lowers the
participation rate. We need to hear about the accidents in order to
learn a lesson!! I personally know two pilots who quit flying in
contests when they watched a glider cartwheel end over end landing in
an unlandable field. Yet, the contest report for that day said
nothing regarding the accident and just showed a W, F for Withdrew
from contest and Flight log.


If someone says a task was called over 80 miles of unlandable terrain,
yet another pilot claims there's always a suitable field within 8
miles of the course line, then why aren't these suitable fields being
entered into the turnpoint database? Situational awareness would
greatly improve if you got low and could see the distance, direction
and altituded needed to find this suitable field.

Looking at the turnpoint database for Logan, it shows lots of mountain
peaks for turnpoints. Nobody needs glide navigation into mountain
peaks. Pilots need glide navigation into suitable fields. How about
using actual suitable landing areas for turnpoints? We're not taking
pictures of easily identifiable turnpoints with Kodak cameras
anymore!! Maybe our accident ratio of 2 out of 60, would be much much
lower if people had these suitable fields marked on their GPS.

I love this sport and hate to hear of accidents happening.

I thought TA had been doing a great job of reporting from contests.
Jim

Try:
http://soaringcafe.com/category/latest/

On 7/23/2011 7:07 PM, Albert Thomas wrote:
As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered,

Maybe I'm misinterpreting how you said it, but...

How did the tasks result in damage? Did the area contain fields that
appeared suitable, but in fact, weren't, and the CD knew that? Were the
weather conditions, coupled with the task, such that the CD should have
known would likely surprise pilots with unpredictable sink or headwinds?

To put it another way: what about the task made pilots fly so that they
ended up landing in unsuitable fields?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)