jet pollution penalties to begin

On 8/20/2011 7:25 PM, Greg Russell wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:12:08 -0600, Daryl quoted and wrote in
:

...
Ask the experts then: "Researchers: Contrails Add More To Global
Warming Than Airplane Emissions"
Mar 30, 2011 – "In a new paper, scientists say the condensation trails
left behind by aircraft could be causing more climate warming than the
CO2 emitted by all aircraft since the start of aviation".

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...8/researchers-
contrails-worse-for-environment-than-airplane-emissions

Actually, the exact opposite occurred right after 911. The Lack of
those contrails allowed an average temp increase of 3 degrees across the
United States and Canada.

May I please ask for a citation of your information source(s) for that
statement? I made the same request of someone who recently stated that
global avg. temperatures *decreased* after 9/11 due to the absence of
contrails. They were unable to respond.

Their statement was qualified as a increase of outgoing planetary
infrared radiation (due to lack of the H20 absorption and re-radiation in
all directions) relative to incoming visible-light albedo, certainly a
non-linear relationship.

This raises a very important question, and yet a very common one, which
usually goes unanswered: an average of precisely what information, and of
what time intervals? Hourly WMO (World Meteorological Organization) world-
wide station data of a week, a month, a year, a fortnight? ... and
relative to what time frame? Some private researcher's site-specific data
of the same time frame ? Your own data from your un-calibrated
instrumentation on your roof?

The long run might be an increase but the
short run (when they are abruptly missing) causes a temp increase.
After the flights were resumed, the temp went back to normal.

Again, I'll respectfully request a supportive citation, as the above
statement makes no physical sense on the face of it.


Repectfully, if you had done a simple Net Search you would have
come up with this same answer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0808075457.htm

http://articles.cnn.com/2002-08-07/t...vis?_s=PM:TECH

On person pointed out out that the temp change in the day was up
while the temp in the night was down. This is caused by the lack
of the normal Contrail Water Vapors that the Airliners give off.

In the day, the lack of it allows less heat (rays) to be bounced
back. Hence the temp raises.

In the night, the lack of the contrails allows the escape of heat
hence the lower temp.

We are talking about water vapor and crystals. This is part of
the nature order of things. Mother nature uses it herself to
regulate temperatures. It's neither bad nor good. It just is.

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Daryl wrote:

Again, I'll respectfully request a supportive citation, as the above
statement makes no physical sense on the face of it.


Repectfully, if you had done a simple Net Search you would have come
up with this same answer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0808075457.htm


http://articles.cnn.com/2002-08-07/t...vis?_s=PM:TECH

On person pointed out out that the temp change in the day was up
while the temp in the night was down. This is caused by the lack of
the normal Contrail Water Vapors that the Airliners give off.

In the day, the lack of it allows less heat (rays) to be bounced
back. Hence the temp raises.

In the night, the lack of the contrails allows the escape of heat
hence the lower temp.

We are talking about water vapor and crystals. This is part of the
nature order of things. Mother nature uses it herself to regulate
temperatures. It's neither bad nor good. It just is.

OK...

What is the relative effect of contrails vs clouds? Is there a
measurable difference in worldwide temps on cloudy days vs clear days
in heavy air traffic areas?