Powell on the National Guard

In article ,
Leslie Swartz wrote:
Same for the "new" gas-electric hybrids. Yes, you get 60 miles to teh
gallon as long as you don't count teh energy stream required to get the "top
off" electricity to the vehicle

You mean like the Toyota Prius? The mileage figures include the
gas required to generate the electricity.

"Kenneth Chiu" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Leslie Swartz wrote:
Same for the "new" gas-electric hybrids. Yes, you get 60 miles to teh
gallon as long as you don't count teh energy stream required to get the
"top
off" electricity to the vehicle

You mean like the Toyota Prius? The mileage figures include the
gas required to generate the electricity.

The comparisons are even worse that that.

The extra price with hybrids makes up for a LOT of gas.

Using figures from edmunds.com:
A Honda Hybrid retails for $20,650, a regular LX Sedan for $16,160

highway mileage:
Hybrid = 47, Sedan = 38.

At $1.60 for gas, that extra $4000+ buys 1/2 million miles of gas at the
9mpg difference.
Even at $2.50/gal, it doesn't equal out til 300,000+ miles.

Using City mileage figures, it evens out at 200,000 miles.

Now...factor in the fuel and chemicals used to make that bigass battery
pack.
Now...factor in the maintenance and environmental price for the expected
battery replacement/disposal at 100-150,000 miles.

Is the Hybrid 'better'? Yes, if gas mileage is the only factor you're
looking at.

Pete

In article ,
Pete wrote:

"Kenneth Chiu" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Leslie Swartz wrote:
Same for the "new" gas-electric hybrids. Yes, you get 60 miles to teh
gallon as long as you don't count teh energy stream required to get the
"top
off" electricity to the vehicle

You mean like the Toyota Prius? The mileage figures include the
gas required to generate the electricity.

The comparisons are even worse that that.

The extra price with hybrids makes up for a LOT of gas.

Using figures from edmunds.com:
A Honda Hybrid retails for $20,650, a regular LX Sedan for $16,160

highway mileage:
Hybrid = 47, Sedan = 38.

At $1.60 for gas, that extra $4000+ buys 1/2 million miles of gas at the
9mpg difference.
Even at $2.50/gal, it doesn't equal out til 300,000+ miles.

Using City mileage figures, it evens out at 200,000 miles.

Now...factor in the fuel and chemicals used to make that bigass battery
pack.
Now...factor in the maintenance and environmental price for the expected
battery replacement/disposal at 100-150,000 miles.

Is the Hybrid 'better'? Yes, if gas mileage is the only factor you're
looking at.

I'm only pointing out that _if_ the OP is talking about cars
like the Prius, he is mistaken if he thinks the mileage
figures do not include the gas to generate the electricity.

Hey Kenneth:

That's a moot point. You only includes the gas burned by the *onboard* ICE.
I specifically said "topoff electricity" which most certainly is NOT
included in the mpg figure. The mpg figure is worthless anyhow, as others
pointed out. The energy required to *make* the vehicle and vehicle systems
above and beyond a comparable vehicle (delta energy, not net energy) makes
the Prius a loser.

OBTW, if you are comparing the price of the Prius to the LX sedan, try
$37,000+ which is the true price of the Prius (before the jackbooted thugs
et al subsidize the vehicle at someone else's expense).

Steve Swartz


"Kenneth Chiu" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Pete wrote:

"Kenneth Chiu" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Leslie Swartz wrote:
Same for the "new" gas-electric hybrids. Yes, you get 60 miles to teh
gallon as long as you don't count teh energy stream required to get
the
"top
off" electricity to the vehicle

You mean like the Toyota Prius? The mileage figures include the
gas required to generate the electricity.

The comparisons are even worse that that.

The extra price with hybrids makes up for a LOT of gas.

Using figures from edmunds.com:
A Honda Hybrid retails for $20,650, a regular LX Sedan for $16,160

highway mileage:
Hybrid = 47, Sedan = 38.

At $1.60 for gas, that extra $4000+ buys 1/2 million miles of gas at the
9mpg difference.
Even at $2.50/gal, it doesn't equal out til 300,000+ miles.

Using City mileage figures, it evens out at 200,000 miles.

Now...factor in the fuel and chemicals used to make that bigass battery
pack.
Now...factor in the maintenance and environmental price for the expected
battery replacement/disposal at 100-150,000 miles.

Is the Hybrid 'better'? Yes, if gas mileage is the only factor you're
looking at.

I'm only pointing out that _if_ the OP is talking about cars
like the Prius, he is mistaken if he thinks the mileage
figures do not include the gas to generate the electricity.

"Leslie Swartz" wrote in message ...
Hey Kenneth:

That's a moot point. You only includes the gas burned by the *onboard* ICE.
I specifically said "topoff electricity" which most certainly is NOT
included in the mpg figure. The mpg figure is worthless anyhow, as others

You obviously know nothing about the currently-available
gasoline/electric
hybrids. In the US, that's the Toyota Prius, the Honda Insight, and
the Honda Civic Hybrid (and hopefully more in the next year). With
the exception of 1 or 2 people who have been doing some serious
hacking/modding on their car to make a gridable hybrid, there IS NO
PLUG for any "topoff electricity."
ALL electricity for the car is either directly generated by excess
power from the gasoline engine, or through regenerative braking (when
coasting or braking, the otherwise lost kinetic energy (which would
convert to heat in brake pads) is tranferred by the electric motor
to the battery pack into kinetic energy). The hybrids are
self-sufficient
with charging or "topping off" the battery. The EPA MPG figures are
just for the gasoline, because that is the only fuel that you can put
into the current hybrids (no electric plug).

The only plug my 3-year-old 2001 Prius has seen is the same one that
most
people use on their traditional cars - the gas pump at the service
station.