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#1
February 29th 04, 05:53 AM
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Is anybody making the ridiculous claim that GWB "made it on
his own?" He wouldn't have gotten any of those jobs without parental influence...and he certainly wouldn't have gotten into the Texas Air Guard. Parents can not get you your BA or BS degree. They cant get you thru UPT They cant get thru F-102 training. Parents cant make you excel at pilot training and ACM. They also cant get you your MBA. Nor do parents just give you leadership. He has accomplished far more than most people, and while connections may help open the door, they do not get your thru or guarantee success. If a Democrat or Green had done many of the things he has, they would be trumpeting those accomplishments left and right. Ron Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4) 
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#2
February 29th 04, 06:30 AM
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Ron wrote:
Is anybody making the ridiculous claim that GWB "made it on his own?" He wouldn't have gotten any of those jobs without parental influence...and he certainly wouldn't have gotten into the Texas Air Guard. Parents can not get you your BA or BS degree. They can indeed, especially if they are alumni and/or are public figures. They're what are called legacy degrees. They cant get you thru UPT They cant get thru F-102 training. The offspring of public figures often are extended courtesies and consideration not available to others. Parents cant make you excel at pilot training and ACM. I don't believe I ever read of a claim that he excelled. When he took his AFOQT, his application form reflected a pencil entry of 25th pctl, which was the lowest level acceptable for entrance into pilot training. I'm not even sure if the pencilled in entry didn't replace a lower original one. They also cant get you your MBA. He himself acknowledged that he was a mediocre student who spent most of his time drinking and doing as little as possible in order to get through the program. My father was a sheet metal mechanic and with a similar academic performance from me, Harvard would have bounced me out on my ass in a heartbeat. Let's not be so naive about the influence of parents who are public figures and/or alumni. Nor do parents just give you leadership. He has accomplished far more than most people, and while connections may help open the door, they do not get your thru or guarantee success. If a Democrat or Green had done many of the things he has, they would be trumpeting those accomplishments left and right. It's all in the eye of the beholder. When all is said and done, he can't divorce his parents nor can he deny that he knows them when they make a judicious call here or there and good things result for him. It doesn't mean he did it all on his own. Bill Gates did it all on his own, but Dubya's nowhere near in the same class. George Z.
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#3
February 29th 04, 06:44 AM
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"George Z. Bush" wrote in message ... Ron wrote: Is anybody making the ridiculous claim that GWB "made it on his own?" He wouldn't have gotten any of those jobs without parental influence...and he certainly wouldn't have gotten into the Texas Air Guard. Parents can not get you your BA or BS degree. They can indeed, especially if they are alumni and/or are public figures. They're what are called legacy degrees. They are called legacy admissions. The student still has to do the work. They cant get you thru UPT They cant get thru F-102 training. The offspring of public figures often are extended courtesies and consideration not available to others. Fighter pilot's sons are put to the head of the line for selection, but the student still must do the work. Parents cant make you excel at pilot training and ACM. I don't believe I ever read of a claim that he excelled. When he took his AFOQT, his application form reflected a pencil entry of 25th pctl, which was the lowest level acceptable for entrance into pilot training. I'm not even sure if the pencilled in entry didn't replace a lower original one. You are mistaken, the Guard thought highly of GW's skills. They also cant get you your MBA. He himself acknowledged that he was a mediocre student who spent most of his time drinking and doing as little as possible in order to get through the program. My father was a sheet metal mechanic and with a similar academic performance from me, Harvard would have bounced me out on my ass in a heartbeat. Let's not be so naive about the influence of parents who are public figures and/or alumni. No, GW admitted he was a mediocre student at Yale. The Harvard MBA is the real deal. Nor do parents just give you leadership. He has accomplished far more than most people, and while connections may help open the door, they do not get your thru or guarantee success. If a Democrat or Green had done many of the things he has, they would be trumpeting those accomplishments left and right. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Yes.
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#4
February 29th 04, 08:59 AM
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Parents can not get you your BA or BS degree.
They can indeed, especially if they are alumni and/or are public figures. They're what are called legacy degrees. No, that is legacy in terms of points for university acceptance. But that does not help you pass your classe or get you your degree. Never heard of a legacy degree...But it can apply for acceptance into school and frats. They cant get thru F-102 training. The offspring of public figures often are extended courtesies and consideration not available to others. I dont think an IP will care you are you or where you came from. Ask Ed if he ever gave rats ass during Fighter Lead In who someone was. Parents cant make you excel at pilot training and ACM. I don't believe I ever read of a claim that he excelled. When he took his AFOQT, his application form reflected a pencil entry of 25th pctl, which was the lowest level acceptable for entrance into pilot training. I'm not even sure if the pencilled in entry didn't replace a lower original one. I have read often that he was a very good stick at UPT, and he was damn good at ACM while as an F-102 pilot They also cant get you your MBA. He himself acknowledged that he was a mediocre student who spent most of his time drinking and doing as little as possible in order to get through the program. My father was a sheet metal mechanic and with a similar academic performance from me, Harvard would have bounced me out on my ass in a heartbeat. Let's not be so naive about the influence of parents who are public figures and/or alumni. Hell, I was a mediocre student too. B average all the way thru..at best. But my IQ, AFOQT, SAT, etc were usually pretty high. He (and I) had an SAT of over 1200, which tranlates pretty high. He certainly had a far better academic record that Gore, but you dont see any Democrats that ever criticized Gore over it It's all in the eye of the beholder. When all is said and done, he can't divorce his parents nor can he deny that he knows them when they make a judicious call here or there and good things result for him. It doesn't mean he did it all on his own. Bill Gates did it all on his own, but Dubya's nowhere near in the same class. George Z. Yes, but it sounds like you are holding it against him, because of his parents. But then Kerry, Kennedy, Roosevelt, all came from priviledged upbringings too. Ron Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
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#5
February 29th 04, 12:45 PM
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Ron wrote:
Parents can not get you your BA or BS degree. They can indeed, especially if they are alumni and/or are public figures. They're what are called legacy degrees. No, that is legacy in terms of points for university acceptance. But that does not help you pass your classe or get you your degree. Never heard of a legacy degree...But it can apply for acceptance into school and frats. Even my old Chinese launderyman understood the concept of "no tickee, no washee". University fundraisers understand "no degree, no contributions" well enough the know how to keep the money flowing. You're kidding yourself if you think it works some other way......it doesn't! They cant get thru F-102 training. The offspring of public figures often are extended courtesies and consideration not available to others. I dont think an IP will care you are you or where you came from. Ask Ed if he ever gave rats ass during Fighter Lead In who someone was. Ed may well not have during his career, but then he may never had a bumbler on his wing only because the guy's daddy had clout. I, too, flew airplanes, and I did it often enough to know that it can and does occasionally happen. I daresay we've both worked for people who were career oriented to the degree that they would have been responsive to potential political influence. It happens. Parents cant make you excel at pilot training and ACM. I don't believe I ever read of a claim that he excelled. When he took his AFOQT, his application form reflected a pencil entry of 25th pctl, which was the lowest level acceptable for entrance into pilot training. I'm not even sure if the pencilled in entry didn't replace a lower original one. I have read often that he was a very good stick at UPT, and he was damn good at ACM while as an F-102 pilot I guess we must have read different stuff. I read that his flying abilities were so limited that his ANG supervisors were pleased when they learned that he grounded himself (by not getting a current flight physical) before he killed himself and destroyed one of their airplanes in the process. Incidentally, I hope you weren't relying on what was said about his performance on those OERs that were written about him....if I was writing one on the son of an influential congressman, I wouldn't have been brutally frank or honest unless my retirement papers had already been approved. Doing something like that was not conducive to a long and satisfying career for the evaluator. They also cant get you your MBA. He himself acknowledged that he was a mediocre student who spent most of his time drinking and doing as little as possible in order to get through the program. My father was a sheet metal mechanic and with a similar academic performance from me, Harvard would have bounced me out on my ass in a heartbeat. Let's not be so naive about the influence of parents who are public figures and/or alumni. Hell, I was a mediocre student too. B average all the way thru..at best. But my IQ, AFOQT, SAT, etc were usually pretty high. He (and I) had an SAT of over 1200, which tranlates pretty high. He certainly had a far better academic record that Gore, but you dont see any Democrats that ever criticized Gore over it You're much too modest. A B average is hardly what anybody would consider mediocre.........it is quite respectable. As for the various test scores you got, that's really quite irrelevent to the discussion. It's all in the eye of the beholder. When all is said and done, he can't divorce his parents nor can he deny that he knows them when they make a judicious call here or there and good things result for him. It doesn't mean he did it all on his own. Bill Gates did it all on his own, but Dubya's nowhere near in the same class. George Z. Yes, but it sounds like you are holding it against him, because of his parents. But then Kerry, Kennedy, Roosevelt, all came from priviledged upbringings too. Sure they did, but the last I heard, none of them majored in Alcoholism 101, and none were C- students. AAMOF, if I recall correctly, you would not have gotten a baccalaureate degree from my undergrad school with a C- average.....it would have taken nothing less than a C average. Let's not confuse earning a degree with being handed one with little if any expenditure of academic effort by the student. At risk of repeating myself, I think I said elsewhere that my father was a sheet metal mechanic and if I had produced academic results no better than those produced by Dubya, Harvard would have bounced my ass out of their MBA program in a heartbeat. George Z.
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#6
February 29th 04, 06:10 PM
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No, that is legacy in terms of points for university acceptance. But that
does not help you pass your classe or get you your degree. Never heard of a legacy degree...But it can apply for acceptance into school and frats. Even my old Chinese launderyman understood the concept of "no tickee, no washee". University fundraisers understand "no degree, no contributions" well enough the know how to keep the money flowing. You're kidding yourself if you think it works some other way......it doesn't! But now you are heading toward a grand conspiracy involving university faculty and professors too. Legacy can help get you in, but it does not get you a degree. I have read often that he was a very good stick at UPT, and he was damn good at ACM while as an F-102 pilot I guess we must have read different stuff. I read that his flying abilities were so limited that his ANG supervisors were pleased when they learned that he grounded himself (by not getting a current flight physical) before he killed himself and destroyed one of their airplanes in the process. Incidentally, I hope you weren't relying on what was said about his performance on those OERs that were written about him....if I was writing one on the son of an influential congressman, I wouldn't have been brutally frank or honest unless my retirement papers had already been approved. Doing something like that was not conducive to a long and satisfying career for the evaluator. "advertisement In late 1969, when George W. Bush showed up at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas for flight training, his instructor was a 270-pound judo black belt and self-described "mean S.O.B." named Maury Udell. "I know your dad is a congressman, but that doesn't mean a thing to me," Udell told Bush. After Bush had learned to fly jets, Udell tried to rattle him by getting on his tail in mock dogfights. Bush gave his instructor a hard look and began doing his own high-speed zigzags, "doing his damnedest to lose me," Udell recalled to NEWSWEEK. "He was not a candy a--." Udell rates Bush "among the top 5 percent of fighter pilots I've ever trained." Ron Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
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#7
February 29th 04, 06:22 PM
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#8
February 29th 04, 06:26 PM
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"Grantland" wrote in message ... 362436 (Ron) wrote: In late 1969, when George W. Bush showed up at Ellington Air Force Base in Texas for flight training, his instructor was a 270-pound judo black belt and self-described "mean S.O.B." named Maury "Brown-nose" Udell. "I know your dad is a congressman, but that doesn't mean a thing to me," Udell told Bush. After Bush had learned to fly jets, Udell tried to rattle him by getting on his tail wink in mock dogfights. Bush gave his instructor a hard look and began doing his own high-speed zigzags, "doing his damnedest to lose me," Udell recalled to NEWSWEEK. "He was not a candy a--." Udell rates Bush "among the top 5 percent of fighter pilots I've ever trained." LOL! So now the universities, their faculty, the Texas ANG and who knows how many others are required in the conspiracy. That Gore guy must have lost on purpose too.
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#9
February 29th 04, 08:29 PM
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#10
March 1st 04, 01:17 AM
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JFKerry was still ****ing American water when his tour was over.
The Kennedy's got him his medals, and got him home safe. I'm sure every Kennedy except Teddy was sorry they ever lifted a finger when he went Communist.
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