Club Class

On Dec 17, 11:47*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote:
On Dec 17, 11:36*am, 5 ugly wrote:

After working very hard to promote the Club Class I found that the
powers to be were not interested. The RC waits for a sign of interest
from the masses while not encouraging the masses to be interested!
Partial blame must also rest with pilots who own and fly Club Class
glider. This group is the largest single group of gliders in the US.
There are more Club Class gliders in the US than all other classes
combined. You must want change in order to get change. 5U

As the "new kid on the RC" when this started I must vigorously
disagree that the "powers that be were not interested." I and others
on the RC would like nothing more that for every national contest to
be oversubscribed and there to be waiting lists at regionals. In a
situation like this creating a new class is a no-brainer. Alas, this
is not the case in our sport. *Participation at the national level is
decreasing and overall is barely holding its own. *Contest organizers
sturggle to break even.

The RC has the responsibility to avoid actions that further fragment
and possible disenfranchise current competitors (the non-clib sports
class participants).

So the question remains wrt club class interest: "Over the past few
years, how many pilots flew their first contest and flew a club class
glider?"

Please know John that the time you guys put in for the SSA is much
appreciated. Thank goodness for you dedication and efforts. I am just
giving you the way I see it. Also know that I speak for no one else
but myself
That being said I must point out that the current powers to be have
been in charge for quite a while and according to you participation
continues to fall, contest organizers struggle to break evenl. Does it
not make since for the RC to try something different, a new direction,
a new way of thinking. I'm done! 5U

On Dec 17, 12:45*pm, 5 ugly wrote:
On Dec 17, 11:47*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote:









On Dec 17, 11:36*am, 5 ugly wrote:

After working very hard to promote the Club Class I found that the
powers to be were not interested. The RC waits for a sign of interest
from the masses while not encouraging the masses to be interested!
Partial blame must also rest with pilots who own and fly Club Class
glider. This group is the largest single group of gliders in the US.
There are more Club Class gliders in the US than all other classes
combined. You must want change in order to get change. 5U

As the "new kid on the RC" when this started I must vigorously
disagree that the "powers that be were not interested." I and others
on the RC would like nothing more that for every national contest to
be oversubscribed and there to be waiting lists at regionals. In a
situation like this creating a new class is a no-brainer. Alas, this
is not the case in our sport. *Participation at the national level is
decreasing and overall is barely holding its own. *Contest organizers
sturggle to break even.

The RC has the responsibility to avoid actions that further fragment
and possible disenfranchise current competitors (the non-clib sports
class participants).

So the question remains wrt club class interest: "Over the past few
years, how many pilots flew their first contest and flew a club class
glider?"

Please know John that the time you guys put in for the SSA is much
appreciated. Thank goodness for you dedication and efforts. I am just
giving you the way I see it. Also know that *I speak for no one else
but myself
That being said I must point out that the current powers to be have
been in charge for quite a while and according to you *participation
continues to fall, contest organizers struggle to break evenl. Does it
not make since for the RC to try something different, a new direction,
a new way of thinking. *I'm done! 5U

It will never change under current control. Sport Class rules and
rating system is the SSA's way of controlling how we handicap gliders
at us contests not flying fai. It will never change considering those
who call the shots on changing the rules.

On Dec 18, 5:38*am, Robert Fidler wrote:
On Dec 17, 12:45*pm, 5 ugly wrote:









On Dec 17, 11:47*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote:

On Dec 17, 11:36*am, 5 ugly wrote:

After working very hard to promote the Club Class I found that the
powers to be were not interested. The RC waits for a sign of interest
from the masses while not encouraging the masses to be interested!
Partial blame must also rest with pilots who own and fly Club Class
glider. This group is the largest single group of gliders in the US..
There are more Club Class gliders in the US than all other classes
combined. You must want change in order to get change. 5U

As the "new kid on the RC" when this started I must vigorously
disagree that the "powers that be were not interested." I and others
on the RC would like nothing more that for every national contest to
be oversubscribed and there to be waiting lists at regionals. In a
situation like this creating a new class is a no-brainer. Alas, this
is not the case in our sport. *Participation at the national level is
decreasing and overall is barely holding its own. *Contest organizers
sturggle to break even.

The RC has the responsibility to avoid actions that further fragment
and possible disenfranchise current competitors (the non-clib sports
class participants).

So the question remains wrt club class interest: "Over the past few
years, how many pilots flew their first contest and flew a club class
glider?"

Please know John that the time you guys put in for the SSA is much
appreciated. Thank goodness for you dedication and efforts. I am just
giving you the way I see it. Also know that *I speak for no one else
but myself
That being said I must point out that the current powers to be have
been in charge for quite a while and according to you *participation
continues to fall, contest organizers struggle to break evenl. Does it
not make since for the RC to try something different, a new direction,
a new way of thinking. *I'm done! 5U

It will never change under current control. Sport Class rules and
rating system is the SSA's way of controlling how we handicap gliders
at us contests not flying fai. It will never change considering those
who call the shots on changing the rules.

What are the issues you see with the current handicap system? Allowing
that no handicap system works for all situations, what would you
suggest that we change? The RC did not find a clear trend in the poll
results, so let's get the continuing discussion underway.

Ok lets start with transparency, where is it? Can anyone tell me the
formula for handicapping gliders?

CH Ventus B (Just outside the club class range)

PS I do believe the club class world team should be formed by people that
actually fly club class gliders year round. Want to fly in club class buy
one!



What are the issues you see with the current handicap system? Allowing
that no handicap system works for all situations, what would you
suggest that we change? The RC did not find a clear trend in the poll
results, so let's get the continuing discussion underway.

On Dec 19, 1:07*pm, Cliff Hilty
wrote:
Ok lets start with transparency, where is it? Can anyone tell me the
formula for handicapping gliders?

CH Ventus B (Just outside the club class range)

PS I do believe the club class world team should be formed by people that
actually fly club class gliders year round. Want to fly in club class buy
one!

its a contest to determine the best pilot not determine glider
ownership

On Dec 19, 12:20*pm, Tony wrote:
On Dec 19, 1:07*pm, Cliff Hilty

wrote:
Ok lets start with transparency, where is it? Can anyone tell me the
formula for handicapping gliders?

CH Ventus B (Just outside the club class range)

PS I do believe the club class world team should be formed by people that
actually fly club class gliders year round. Want to fly in club class buy
one!

its a contest to determine the best pilot not determine glider
ownership

Yes, it should make no difference what a pilot has flown during the
soaring season, but the pilot should fly a club class sailplane,
during a scored club class contest, for inclusion.

This whole Sports Class vs Club Class argument is absurd.

There are FUNDAMENTAL differences between the intent of the two
classes:

Sports is meant to be a "beginners" class. Thus the shorter, simpler
(?) tasking, and letting any glider that shows up compete. OK in
theory, except when you end up with a Blanik racing a Nimbus 4DM...but
if both pilots are beginners to racing, then it kinda works.

Club class is meant to be a serious racing class for pilots who don't
have the latest FAI gliders, but still wand serious competition with
challenging tasks.

There is a need for both; the Arizona Soaring Association addresses
this with 3 level of tasks when necessary, so that the task difficulty
better matches the glider performance and pilot skill of the
competitors.

I personally will not compete in a Sports Class contest unless it is
held in my back yard. I will travel to a Club/Modern contest
(planning on attending Moriarty again this June - CH are you in?). I
will also go to 15M regionals or even the Nationals if possible, even
if my LS6 is not quite as competitive as the latest V2s and 29s,
because I enjoy a challenging race.

My suggestion? Combine Club/Modern with Std/15 regionals, with
slightly shorter tasks for the Club/Modern. Bigger field, bigger
contests, more fun. Ditto Sports/Club; same venue and contest
management, different tasks/scoresheets.

Kirk
66