If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....

Cub Driver wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

" to this day I too am confounded by the apparent
ineptness of the USAF (and especially the American intelligence
community) both of whom utterly failed to prevent the apocalyptic
death and destruction of 9/11."

This is the way you do it:

1) If the USAF, the "intelligence community," and especially the
president don't succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame their
inepitude.

Correct. It all boils down to exactly that. The air force, in
addition to the army, navy, marine corps and coast guard along
with the vast array of civilian intelligence and national security
agencies are all paid good money to defend the U.S. Afterall,
that be their jobs, man. But all of the above completely and totally
failed to do that on 9/11. Now, had they succeeded in stopping the
terrorist attacks on 9/11 we would all be singing their praises still
to this day. Oh well...ya' win some and ya lose some.

2) If they do succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame them
for instrusive measures against an unreal enemy.

Incorrect. No terrorist attacks on American soil in more than two
years is sierra hotel. Dubya & Co. has my vote in November.
Unfortunately, it won't bring back the 3,000 American lives that
were slaughtered on 9/11.

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
Cub Driver wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

" to this day I too am confounded by the apparent
ineptness of the USAF (and especially the American intelligence
community) both of whom utterly failed to prevent the apocalyptic
death and destruction of 9/11."

This is the way you do it:

1) If the USAF, the "intelligence community," and especially the
president don't succeed in stopping terrorist attacks, you blame their
inepitude.

Correct. It all boils down to exactly that. The air force, in
addition to the army, navy, marine corps and coast guard along
with the vast array of civilian intelligence and national security
agencies are all paid good money to defend the U.S. Afterall,
that be their jobs, man. But all of the above completely and totally
failed to do that on 9/11. Now, had they succeeded in stopping the
terrorist attacks on 9/11 we would all be singing their praises still
to this day. Oh well...ya' win some and ya lose some.


True enough but the issue is what was the nature of the failure ?

The primary agency responsible for defense against international
terrorism within the USA prior to Sept 11 was presumably the
FBI with the CIA being responsible for collecting such intelligence
overseas as may indicate foreign agencies involved

As an outsider it seems to me that it was those two agencies
along with the INS that failed to identify the nature of the
threat and the individuals involved. Had they given the USAF
a timely warning then by all means blame that body but they
clearly did not and the USAF would be heavily criticised if
it tried to usurp the functions of either the CIA or FBI.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Correct. It all boils down to exactly that. The air force, in
addition to the army, navy, marine corps and coast guard along
with the vast array of civilian intelligence and national security
agencies are all paid good money to defend the U.S. Afterall,
that be their jobs, man. But all of the above completely and totally
failed to do that on 9/11. Now, had they succeeded in stopping the
terrorist attacks on 9/11 we would all be singing their praises still
to this day. Oh well...ya' win some and ya lose some.

True enough but the issue is what was the nature of the failure ?

The primary agency responsible for defense against international
terrorism within the USA prior to Sept 11 was presumably the
FBI with the CIA being responsible for collecting such intelligence
overseas as may indicate foreign agencies involved

As an outsider it seems to me that it was those two agencies
along with the INS that failed to identify the nature of the
threat and the individuals involved. Had they given the USAF
a timely warning then by all means blame that body but they
clearly did not and the USAF would be heavily criticised if
it tried to usurp the functions of either the CIA or FBI.

Plenty of folks, including myself, know that there's plenty of blame
to go around for the 9/11 massacre. The obvious failures of the CIA,
FBI, INS, etc. aside, the Air Force must also accept its fair share of
the blame since highly trained and well-paid Air Force Intelligence,
Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) specialists are heavily
involved with counterterrorism operations.

On 3/1/04 9:01 AM, in article ,
"Mike Marron" wrote:

... the Air Force must also accept its fair share of
the blame since highly trained and well-paid Air Force Intelligence,
Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) specialists are heavily
involved with counterterrorism operations.

There was no lack of information available to the agencies which had the
direct responsibility for enforcement and apprehension. They simply failed
to follow through on what they already knew.

The USAF has no culpability such as you describe.

Perhaps you should retire to the shop and fiddle with greasy parts.
Disassembly must be your strong point.



Jack
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Jack wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

... the Air Force must also accept its fair share of
the blame since highly trained and well-paid Air Force Intelligence,
Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) specialists are heavily
involved with counterterrorism operations.

There was no lack of information available to the agencies which had the
direct responsibility for enforcement and apprehension. They simply failed
to follow through on what they already knew.

Lack of enforcement and apprehension is one thing, lack of airstrikes
against Taliban and Al-Quida training camps is an entirely different
thing.

The USAF has no culpability such as you describe.

That's just your opinion (and you do know what they say about
opinions?)

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
Jack wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

... the Air Force must also accept its fair share of
the blame since highly trained and well-paid Air Force Intelligence,
Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) specialists are heavily
involved with counterterrorism operations.

There was no lack of information available to the agencies which had the
direct responsibility for enforcement and apprehension. They simply
failed
to follow through on what they already knew.

Lack of enforcement and apprehension is one thing, lack of airstrikes
against Taliban and Al-Quida training camps is an entirely different
thing.


Those decisions are made by the Government not the USAF, blame
the President and his advisers if you feel there were grounds for
such airstrikes but I dont recall any clamour from you on the
subject before Sept 11 2001

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Lack of enforcement and apprehension is one thing, lack of airstrikes
against Taliban and Al-Quida training camps is an entirely different
thing.

Those decisions are made by the Government not the USAF,

The government relys in part on Air Force intelligence resources to
make those decisions. You can continue to blame 9/11 on everyone
BUT the Air Force if you wish, but that's like blaming everyone BUT
the Army Air Corp for Dec 7, 1941.

blame the President and his advisers if you feel there were grounds for
such airstrikes but I dont recall any clamour from you on the
subject before Sept 11 2001

The gathering and processing of intelligence never was a part of my
job. My job was to simply fly checks, federal bank notes, nuclear
medicine stuff etc. in Cessna 210's.

On 3/1/04 1:13 PM, in article ,
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Lack of enforcement and apprehension is one thing, lack of airstrikes
against Taliban and Al-Quida training camps is an entirely different
thing.

Talk to your hero Bill Clinton about that.


Jack
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