JSF and close air support

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

So far the GPS/Data link combination has performed at less than expected
levels. I havn't seen anything good about the Navy plan to replace TACAN
with GPS/Data link and FAA just killed the LAAS landing system.

How is a proposed GPS/Data link landing system related to the current JDAM
or its proposed seeker?

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram the
munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers -- TLAM is one
significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places back in
'90 and '91.

Further, GPS + data link + terminal seeker has worked well in the past -- in
some cases, such as SLAM, at greater than "expected levels" for the program.
SLAM-ER, advanced Tomahawk, JSOW P3I, and other programs have built on the
baselines set by SLAM and other similar programs.


Do you have a reading disability, Weiss, or are you actually as rude as you
come off?

No reading disability; nowhere near as rude as you.

OTOH, you just made a couple statements that are apparently without basis or
relevance:

The Navy has been using GPS and data link in landing systems for quite a
while, in addition to TACAN. I am not aware of any current "Navy plan to
replace TACAN with GPS/Data link."

What does LAAS have to do with weapon terminal guidance?

I simply asked for some amplification, which an engineer with your claimed
credentials should be willing and able to provide. Otherwise, if you can't
answer valid questions regarding the basis for your statements, we can all
assume you're just spewing your usual BS, and no basis exists outside your
imagination.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message ...

What does LAAS have to do with weapon terminal guidance?

It was shot down before down reaching the initial approach fix? :P

Perhaps so the weapon can land quietly on 12R, taxi on over to that
FBO everyone doesn't like, park in front of the vending machine, and
show 'em who's boss?

I simply asked for some amplification,

From a device that has a SNR == 0.



Ever been hanging out at a bar in a group socializing when someone
comes up and tries to join but all they do is jump on everyone else's
signal? You notice the group pretty much just continues on with their
conversation without skipping a beat, ignoring the plea for attention.
You'll notice that in/around here. Some threads indent till they run
out of right margin Others continue right on by it as if it's not
there. Don't make it a time sink.

Don't worry that you'll be 'labeled' a troll or whatever else the
defensive tactic tries to use. It's just another tired and cliched
attempt to self-validate. Don't make it a time sink.

Jon
--

"Boy he's really starting to rant like tarver." - Tank Fixer
"Are they quality products, or did you have some input in their
design?" - Mcnicoll to Tarver
"WAAS is dead, dead, dead" - The yelping puppy himself
"L5 is canceled." - yelp, yelp yelp

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

So far the GPS/Data link combination has performed at less than
expected
levels. I havn't seen anything good about the Navy plan to replace
TACAN
with GPS/Data link and FAA just killed the LAAS landing system.

How is a proposed GPS/Data link landing system related to the current
JDAM
or its proposed seeker?

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire
to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram the
munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers -- TLAM
is one
significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places
back in
'90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote ...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram the
munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers -- TLAM is
one
significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places back
in
'90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

I see... In your fantasy world, TLAM and JSOW are "irrelevant" in the context
of GPS guided weapons with terminal seekers, and so is the funded research in
the JSOW Preplanned Product Improvement program...

What current weapon[s] use[s] "GPS with FOG" and "does all that already"?

BTW, what is your definition of FOG in context? The gnomes at China Lake
couldn't make FOG-S (Fiber Optic Guided Skipper) work well enough for
operational use after many years of pork-barrel supported work...

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote ...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the
munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers --
TLAM is
one
significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places
back
in
'90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

I see... In your fantasy world, TLAM and JSOW are "irrelevant" in the
context
of GPS guided weapons with terminal seekers, and so is the funded research
in
the JSOW Preplanned Product Improvement program...

What current weapon[s] use[s] "GPS with FOG" and "does all that already"?

BTW, what is your definition of FOG in context? The gnomes at China Lake
couldn't make FOG-S (Fiber Optic Guided Skipper) work well enough for
operational use after many years of pork-barrel supported work...

Fibre Optic Gyro.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers -- TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming or
retargeting of the weapon.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been
several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers --
TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked
with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other
places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming or
retargeting of the weapon.

That is true.

"John R Weiss" wrote
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been
several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal seekers --
TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked
with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other
places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming or
retargeting of the weapon.

AMSTE (Affordable Moving Surface Target Engagement) uses a post-release data
link to compensate for the long time of flight of the ballistic weapon used
(JDAM). The current AMSTE test series has demonstrated fair success against
soft targets using JDAM unaided by an imager. An imaging seeker is planned
for use against hard targets like armor. The DAMASK (Direct Attack Munition
Affordable Seeker) imaging seeker is one of the candidates to serve in that
role.

In order to make the DAMASK seeker affordable (a key parameter in the
JDAM-related electronics), several performance parameters were kept modest.
Because the intended application (JDAM) has a small, 10m CEP, the IR Seeker
doesn't need either a wide FOV or high resolution.

If a higher performance IR seeker were used, allowing lock-on prior to
release, then yes a data link would not be needed. But you don't have an
"affordable" weapon then. But the USAF has gotten religion on the
affordability of weapons and within that family, cost is an equal priority
with performance.

"Paul F Austin" wrote in message
. ..

"John R Weiss" wrote
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

As the rest of the thread up to this point indicates, there is a
desire to
redirect a GPS guided munition post launch. The means to
reprogram
the munition would require some data link.

Actually, data link is NOT a hard requirement. There have been
several
initiatives in work for many years on autonomous terminal
seekers --
TLAM
is
one significant example, though it may not have used GPS. I worked
with
some
relevant JSOW (then AIWS) P3I proposals at TI and a couple other
places
back in '90 and '91.

Irrelevent.

GPS with FOG does all that already.

Fibre Optic Gyro.

GPS with a gyro of any kind does not make for post-launch reprogramming
or
retargeting of the weapon.

AMSTE (Affordable Moving Surface Target Engagement) uses a post-release
data
link to compensate for the long time of flight of the ballistic weapon
used
(JDAM).

We already discussed that and Weiss just wanted to argue.