New Butterfly Vario

* As an alternative, hopefully pilots will refuse to particiapte in
activities that prohibit devices that enhance safety.

* * * * Alan

Or pilots will refuse to participate in activities which are enhance
safety, like leaving that 10 knot thermal with some margin below
cloudbase.

c


As an alternative, hopefully pilots will refuse to particiapte in
activities that prohibit devices that enhance safety.


Alan


Flying in cloud enhances safety????

Flarm good, artificial horizon bad - pretty simple, have one without the
other.

Tom

On 2/15/2012 2:19 PM, Alan wrote:
As an alternative, hopefully pilots will refuse to particiapte in
activities that prohibit devices that enhance safety.

If you consider flying in a contest without an AH or similar too
dangerous, you should not be considering contests at all. Having a AH in
your panel will decrease the dangers from contest flying by an
immeasurable amount.

I am serious about this: getting sucked into a cloud is not what will
kill you in a contest, and if you believe it is a real risk, you
_really_ need to learn a lot more about contests.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

True. But what of iPhones, Andriod phones. They have the same electronic gyro sensors as the Butterfly?

On 2/15/2012 3:34 PM, Sean Fidler wrote:
True. But what of iPhones, Andriod phones. They have the same electronic gyro sensors as the Butterfly?

Many of us do not see what message you are responding to, because of the
specific way we read RAS. It would be very helpful if you included the
name of the person and at least a partial quote in your reply, as I have
here. That's usually very easy to do, regardless of the newsreader or
web ready you are using.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

I have already made the below notes on all of my flight computer, data
logger pages to hopefully make competition pilots aware of the position the
US contest rules committee has made prohibiting the use of AHRS and other
blind flying instruments and devices
please see my page
http://wingsandwheels.com/lx_nav_lx8...ano_flight.htm
and other pages as well

"Instruments or devices equipped with any form or AHRS system (Artificial
Horizon) or Instruments that could be used for "Cloud Flying" that cannot be
completely disabled or removed are not permitted in any
SSA sanctioned competition!"
More details are available on link above or may be found on Contest Rules
and Rules Committee Documents

regards
Tim Mara
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com



wrote in message
...
On Feb 14, 4:15 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

The LX8000 and LX9000 use an AHRS sensor box with built in g-meters,
etc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/lxnav.htm#LXNAV-AHRS

Paul Remde

"Mike" wrote in message

...
On Feb 14, 12:08 am, Max Kellermann wrote:



Mike wrote:
XCSoar has an artificial horizon? I did not know that.

Yes:

http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/master/xc...enderer/Horizo...

The code has been there for many years, but is disabled, the comment
says why. (Not my opinion/decision, I would not put artificial limits
on technology used by XCSoar)

This code will be reinstated when Johnny (and the rest of the
OpenVario project) finishes his new vario design, which includes a
real AHRS. The OpenVario project started long before Butterfly
announced their vario, but since it's a spare time project of a few
soaring geeks, it takes a bit longer.

Max

Is this also the source of the faux AH found in L8000?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Paul:
As in my warning about Butterfly, you and other vendors should ensure
that the pilots buying the devices from you that are represented to
have A/H functionality, know that these devices are not permitted
under current and future SSA competition rules.
Notwithstanding the disagreement by a vocal few, this policy is not
going to change any time soon.
It would be a big service to your customers to ensure that they are
informed and an even bigger service if you make a point of ensuring
that your suppliers know that there is a clarification of policy in
effect and a methodology for compliance.
There is adequate time before the majority of the contest season to
get this accomplished.
If there is a question about whether a product falls into this
catagory, the RC will work hard to give you a determination.
I guess Richard, Rex?,and Tim and I don't know who else would also be
well to heed this suggestion.
I don't think you want to be getting the angry call from your customer
on contest practice day that you sold him an instrument he can't use.
Thanks for you cooperation and service to the contest community.
UH
RC Chair

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On Feb 16, 8:52*am, "Tim Mara" wrote:

"Instruments or devices equipped with any form or AHRS system (Artificial
Horizon) or Instruments that could be used for "Cloud Flying" that cannot be
completely disabled or removed are not permitted in any
SSA sanctioned competition!"


Tim,

You may need to edit that note. Your note as written implies that
AHRS means Artifical Horizon and that's not accurate.

AHRS means Attitude and Heading Reference System. An AHRS is a much
more capable system than an AH since it provides (at a minimum) pitch
attitude, roll attitude and heading.

Wouldn't it be better to just quote the rule?

To go off on a tangent - I wonder how many CDs would recognize a Bohli
compass and know what to say about it.

Andy

Mike wrote:
Is this also the source of the faux AH found in L8000?

Not quite:

http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/mirror/LK...rawTRI.cpp#n18

The rendering code was rewritten to make it look more fancy (LK8000
uses only the calculated bank angle, but not the pitch angle). The
formula has never been changed in LK8000, it's still the old XCSoar 5
formula, which means it's still pretty unreliable, lacking real AHRS
input:

http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/mirror/LK...tions.cpp#n513

The XCSoar 6 formula has been improved to consider acceleration sensor
input (if available):

http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/master/xc...puter.cpp#n324

Not so much better, though. I'd say neither one is usable.

Max

On Feb 14, 2:28*pm, Max Kellermann wrote:
Mike wrote:
Is this also the source of the faux AH found in L8000?

Not quite:

*http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/mirror/LK...n/Source/Draw/....

The rendering code was rewritten to make it look more fancy (LK8000
uses only the calculated bank angle, but not the pitch angle). *The
formula has never been changed in LK8000, it's still the old XCSoar 5
formula, which means it's still pretty unreliable, lacking real AHRS
input:

*http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/mirror/LK...n/Source/Calc/....

The XCSoar 6 formula has been improved to consider acceleration sensor
input (if available):

*http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/master/xc...omputer/BasicC....

Not so much better, though. *I'd say neither one is usable.

Max

Thanks Max

So does the new LX Zues...so will just about every instument, watch, smartphone that is built in the future. Any phone onboard during a contest that, once the cockpit door is closed, can download an app (yes i know this is crazy) is illegal. So it must be assumed that any contest pilot with a smattphone onboard of any fashion is cheating.

Its all just so silly...