New Butterfly Vario

This is going to turn into a massive challenge to enforce...silly.

My view on enforcement, etc.

We don't have detailed scrutineering now. We rely a lot on pilot
honesty.

Honesty is helped a lot by a feeling that everybody else isn't doing
it. Right now, US contest pilots don't cloud fly.

With that in mind, the rules really can't let you have a big honking
artificial horizon in the middle of the panel. And you can't have an
installed insturment that uses gyros and provides similar, serious,
cloud-flying ability. Not just might it tempt you, but its presence
might lead others to suspect that they have to cloud fly to keep up
with you.

Yes, it is theoretically possible to cloud fly using a GPS moving map,
or your iphone, or watching a pendulum. It's also possible to sneak
off on to other frequencies and team fly, or use your iphone to look
at the visible satellite loop, or sneak in walkie talkies to team fly.
If you do that, you're nuts, and you know you're cheating. There's no
prize money or groupies. There's also no paid staff of CDs and
scrutineers. For the moment at least, all these options are so
unreliable that it's really not worth putting in the enforcement
costs. Enforcement is, we just don't do stuff like this.

If you're thinking about cheating, think about the glory of winning
one contest vs. the lifelong shame of being caught cheating.


I think some of us need to get out and go flying before cabin fever
gets any worse. I know I do! Three "currency" flights in an ASK21
last weekend were the most fun I've had in months.

John Cochrane

On Feb 15, 12:56*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
This is going to turn into a massive challenge to enforce...silly.

My view on enforcement, etc.

We don't have detailed scrutineering now. We rely a lot on pilot
honesty.

Honesty is helped a lot by a feeling that everybody else isn't doing
it. Right now, US contest pilots don't cloud fly.

With that in mind, the rules really can't let you have a big honking
artificial horizon in the middle of the panel. And you can't have an
installed insturment that uses gyros and provides similar, serious,
cloud-flying ability. Not just might it tempt you, but its presence
might lead others to suspect that they have to cloud fly to keep up
with you.

Yes, it is theoretically possible to cloud fly using a GPS moving map,
or your iphone, or watching a pendulum. *It's also possible to sneak
off on to other frequencies and team fly, or use your iphone to look
at the visible satellite loop, or sneak in walkie talkies to team fly.
If you do that, you're nuts, and you know you're cheating. There's no
prize money or groupies. There's also no paid staff of CDs and
scrutineers. For the moment at least, all these options are so
unreliable that it's really not worth putting in the enforcement
costs. Enforcement is, we just don't do stuff like this.

If you're thinking about cheating, think about the glory of winning
one contest vs. the lifelong shame of being caught cheating.

I think some of us need to get out and go flying before cabin fever
gets any worse. I know I do! *Three "currency" flights in an ASK21
last weekend were the most fun I've had in months.

John Cochrane

Thanks for the common sense point of view John.

John,

I will be the first to admit that you are an extremely smart guy. I would not raise my hand to go up against you in Jeopardy any time soon. I greatly enjoy reading your outstanding soaring articles and have tremendous respect for your many insights within our sport.

I 100% agree that the honor system is the right way to proceed forward. Essentially that has been the case even with this rule historically in place and the recent reminder to the contest pilot community from the SSA Rules Committee. I believe that it would be much easier (and safer) for everyone, at this point, to simply allow everyone to install or keep any existing AH or T&B enabled instrument they currently fly (about 15 people I know flew with AH or T&B in various regional contests last year and were entirely unaware of the specifics of this rule). Let the honor system work.

I believe the vast majority of our soaring colleagues are extremely honest, would never willingly cheat for any reason and are primarily concerned with safe flight for themselves and their fellow pilots. As of right now we have butterfly (vario) removing their AH capability for the SSA rules committee, but 4-5 other instruments from various manufacturers (LK8000, XC Soar, Iphone, Andriod, LX8000, LX 9000, etc, etc) are going to need the same oversight. Its going to go on and on and on.

I think I have already proven that this rule is entirely unenforced, unenforceable and noneffective in general. Technology is going to move faster than our rules committee can follow. This is what is happening now and why there is so much debate today. If you really think about it (by definition of the current rule) almost every SSA competition pilot cheated for the past 2-3 years by having their GPS and accelerometer/gyro equipped iPhone or Android phone on board (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhon...ardown/3156/1).

If somebody really wants to cheat and cloud fly this season it could be done with more and more ease each season as new and improved electronics are released. It would not be hard to do now if someone really wanted to do it. The manufactures own customers are asking for the AH capability for safety reasons (very efficient and slick to integrate into the multi function displays of modern instruments) and the manufacturers want to deliver this value. The current AH/T&B ban rule creates are real conflict with innovation.. To spend all this effort disarming all and any upcoming instrument is going to be extremely difficult for pilots and committee members (all to prevent one yahoo from cheating whom the rule wont stop from doing so as it is currently enforced and written). It could also invite some extremely ugly protests, etc.

Sincerely,

Sean
F2

As so many before me have already said in one form or another: "It's
extremely unlikely to be sucked into a cloud if you maintain legal
separation." Likewise, if you cheat you'll know you did it and will feel
crappy about it forever - that is if you're an honest person to start with.


"Sean Fidler" wrote in message
news:24861166.122.1329338510874.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yncd8...
John,

I will be the first to admit that you are an extremely smart guy. I would
not raise my hand to go up against you in Jeopardy any time soon. I
greatly enjoy reading your outstanding soaring articles and have tremendous
respect for your many insights within our sport.

I 100% agree that the honor system is the right way to proceed forward.
Essentially that has been the case even with this rule historically in place
and the recent reminder to the contest pilot community from the SSA Rules
Committee. I believe that it would be much easier (and safer) for everyone,
at this point, to simply allow everyone to install or keep any existing AH
or T&B enabled instrument they currently fly (about 15 people I know flew
with AH or T&B in various regional contests last year and were entirely
unaware of the specifics of this rule). Let the honor system work.

I believe the vast majority of our soaring colleagues are extremely honest,
would never willingly cheat for any reason and are primarily concerned with
safe flight for themselves and their fellow pilots. As of right now we have
butterfly (vario) removing their AH capability for the SSA rules committee,
but 4-5 other instruments from various manufacturers (LK8000, XC Soar,
Iphone, Andriod, LX8000, LX 9000, etc, etc) are going to need the same
oversight. Its going to go on and on and on.

I think I have already proven that this rule is entirely unenforced,
unenforceable and noneffective in general. Technology is going to move
faster than our rules committee can follow. This is what is happening now
and why there is so much debate today. If you really think about it (by
definition of the current rule) almost every SSA competition pilot cheated
for the past 2-3 years by having their GPS and accelerometer/gyro equipped
iPhone or Android phone on board
(http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhon...ardown/3156/1).

If somebody really wants to cheat and cloud fly this season it could be done
with more and more ease each season as new and improved electronics are
released. It would not be hard to do now if someone really wanted to do it.
The manufactures own customers are asking for the AH capability for safety
reasons (very efficient and slick to integrate into the multi function
displays of modern instruments) and the manufacturers want to deliver this
value. The current AH/T&B ban rule creates are real conflict with
innovation. To spend all this effort disarming all and any upcoming
instrument is going to be extremely difficult for pilots and committee
members (all to prevent one yahoo from cheating whom the rule wont stop from
doing so as it is currently enforced and written). It could also invite
some extremely ugly protests, etc.

Sincerely,

Sean
F2

On Feb 15, 12:56*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
This is going to turn into a massive challenge to enforce...silly.

My view on enforcement, etc.

We don't have detailed scrutineering now. We rely a lot on pilot
honesty.

Honesty is helped a lot by a feeling that everybody else isn't doing
it. Right now, US contest pilots don't cloud fly.


John Cochrane

John, you, as my friend, will allow me to ad this to your post.

Sportmanship is the word that has been missing on some of these
posts.

Sportsmanship typically is regarded as a component of morality in
sport, composed of three related and perhaps overlapping concepts:
fair play, sportsmanship and character. Fair play refers to all
participants having an equitable chance to pursue victory and acting
toward others in an honest, straightforward, and firm and dignified
manner even when others do not play fairly. It includes respect for
others, including team members, opponents, and officials. Character
refers to dispositions, values, and habits that determine the way that
person normally responds to desires, fears, challenges, opportunities,
failures, and successes, and is typically seen in polite behaviors
toward others, such as helping an opponent up or shaking hands after a
match. An individual is believed to have a “good character” when those
dispositions and habits reflect core ethical values.


Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will
be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness,
ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors.

We stand alone on our acts yet the respect and camaraderie we have
towards each other comes from the sportsmanship we display during
events inwhich we enjoy being envolved in. Thier can be no sport
without sportmanship.

Thomas Kelley #711.

1) QT, Dave, and a few others: Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

....If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

....If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

....If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

....That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?


In Summary: I just don't understand. I simply don't. Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. Yes, its a danger. Yes, it should be
prevented. But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)

Amen Noel.

On Feb 15, 4:48*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
1) QT, Dave, and a few others: *Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. *I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. *The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. *It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: *If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). * *But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. *The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. *If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). *They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. *Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. *This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. *This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. *XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. *It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! *If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. *The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. *Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... *Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? *If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

...If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

...That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. *And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?

In Summary: *I just don't understand. *I simply don't. *Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. *Yes, its a danger. *Yes, it should be
prevented. *But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? *And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)


Enforcement of the rule comes from Sportmanship. Its us, its that
simple. We act alone on this issue but stand together in the
definition of "Sportsmanship".

The cell phone issue is simple, Wal Mart, a $20 cell answers this
issue. Many do this as we also have Androids but don't carry them
during a SSA contest.

Going IMC, meaning into a cloud, flight below VFR minimums, IS
AVOIDABLE. Enough said their.

The rules do have an effect, as it is now expected of all entrants to
display Sportmanship while racing in SSA contests.

Noel, like no PDA to fly with?? No cell or Spot?? Just good old
charts, a wiz wheel and knowing the task area? Like real airmanship
and looking outside? Dang, bring it on, lets race, you made my day.

Yes, enforcement can happen and will. As during the 18 Meter Nationals
several years back. Several were carrying Android phones or
BlackBerrys. I, yes, I, stood up during the pilots meeting and spoke
of Sportmanship. After my brief talk, a senior old rules commititte
guy spoke. He made it very clear. Unsportsmanlike conduct can be as
sever as a ban from SSA contests for up to 5 years. Carrying these
devices can be considered unsportmanslike conduct. After the meeting,
those 2 folks went and got new cells to carry with them, from Wal
Mart. Ahhhhhh............they never once complained.

Again, we stand as one, meaning we are each responcible for our
actions, but together we bring under the definition of "Sportmanship"
a sport inwhich we race in. We also know that our peers have given
much thought to these topics.

Its been posted way before this on the "how to's" of rule changes. As
at shopping in Sears, its the "best" way.

Thomas Kelley #711.

On Feb 15, 9:34*pm, Tom Kelley wrote:
On Feb 15, 4:48*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:









1) QT, Dave, and a few others: *Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. *I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. *The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. *It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: *If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). * *But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. *The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. *If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). *They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. *Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. *This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. *This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. *XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. *It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! *If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. *The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. *Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... *Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? *If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

...If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

...That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. *And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?

In Summary: *I just don't understand. *I simply don't. *Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. *Yes, its a danger. *Yes, it should be
prevented. *But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? *And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)

Enforcement of the rule comes from Sportmanship. Its us, its that
simple. We act alone on this issue but stand together in the
definition of "Sportsmanship".

The cell phone issue is simple, Wal Mart, a $20 cell answers this
issue. Many do this as we also have Androids but don't carry them
during a SSA contest.

Going IMC, meaning into a cloud, flight below VFR minimums, IS
AVOIDABLE. Enough said their.

The rules do have an effect, as it is now expected of all entrants to
display Sportmanship while racing in SSA contests.

Noel, like no PDA to fly with?? No cell or Spot?? Just good old
charts, a wiz wheel and knowing the task area? Like real airmanship
and looking outside? Dang, bring it on, lets race, you made my day.

Yes, enforcement can happen and will. As during the 18 Meter Nationals
several years back. Several were carrying Android phones or
BlackBerrys. I, yes, I, stood up during the pilots meeting and spoke
of Sportmanship. After my brief talk, a senior old rules commititte
guy spoke. He made it very clear. Unsportsmanlike conduct can be as
sever as a ban from SSA contests for up to 5 years. Carrying these
devices can be considered unsportmanslike conduct. After the meeting,
those 2 folks went and got new cells to carry with them, from Wal
Mart. Ahhhhhh............they never once complained.

Again, we stand as one, meaning we are each responcible for our
actions, but together we bring under the definition of "Sportmanship"
a sport inwhich we race in. We also know that our peers have given
much thought to these topics.

Its been posted way before this on the "how to's" of rule changes. As
at shopping in Sears, its the "best" way.

Thomas Kelley #711.

What are you going to do once the only phones available are smart
phones?
If I have to leave my current phone behind to go to a contest I am
done with contests.

While I have no strong opinion on AH in a cockpit please keep your
hands away from my phone!

On Feb 15, 10:17*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:34*pm, Tom Kelley wrote:









On Feb 15, 4:48*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:

1) QT, Dave, and a few others: *Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. *I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. *The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. *It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: *If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). * *But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. *The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. *If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). *They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. *Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. *This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. *This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. *XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. *It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! *If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. *The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. *Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... *Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? *If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

...If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

...That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. *And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?

In Summary: *I just don't understand. *I simply don't. *Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. *Yes, its a danger. *Yes, it should be
prevented. *But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? *And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)

Enforcement of the rule comes from Sportmanship. Its us, its that
simple. We act alone on this issue but stand together in the
definition of "Sportsmanship".

The cell phone issue is simple, Wal Mart, a $20 cell answers this
issue. Many do this as we also have Androids but don't carry them
during a SSA contest.

Going IMC, meaning into a cloud, flight below VFR minimums, IS
AVOIDABLE. Enough said their.

The rules do have an effect, as it is now expected of all entrants to
display Sportmanship while racing in SSA contests.

Noel, like no PDA to fly with?? No cell or Spot?? Just good old
charts, a wiz wheel and knowing the task area? Like real airmanship
and looking outside? Dang, bring it on, lets race, you made my day.

Yes, enforcement can happen and will. As during the 18 Meter Nationals
several years back. Several were carrying Android phones or
BlackBerrys. I, yes, I, stood up during the pilots meeting and spoke
of Sportmanship. After my brief talk, a senior old rules commititte
guy spoke. He made it very clear. Unsportsmanlike conduct can be as
sever as a ban from SSA contests for up to 5 years. Carrying these
devices can be considered unsportmanslike conduct. After the meeting,
those 2 folks went and got new cells to carry with them, from Wal
Mart. Ahhhhhh............they never once complained.

Again, we stand as one, meaning we are each responcible for our
actions, but together we bring under the definition of "Sportmanship"
a sport inwhich we race in. We also know that our peers have given
much thought to these topics.

Its been posted way before this on the "how to's" of rule changes. As
at shopping in Sears, its the "best" way.

Thomas Kelley #711.

What are you going to do once the only phones available are smart
phones?
If I have to leave my current phone behind to go to a contest I am
done with contests.

While I have no strong opinion on AH in a cockpit please keep your
hands away from my phone!

Tom does have a point. Buy a cheap phone, put it on your existing
service. Charge it, test it, turn it off, put it in the glider and
leave it there. I'd do that.

Looks like you can still get them. Perhaps $30 on Amazon. Big
deal... not.

-Evan Ludeman / T8