New Butterfly Vario

On Feb 15, 12:56*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
This is going to turn into a massive challenge to enforce...silly.

My view on enforcement, etc.

We don't have detailed scrutineering now. We rely a lot on pilot
honesty.

Honesty is helped a lot by a feeling that everybody else isn't doing
it. Right now, US contest pilots don't cloud fly.


John Cochrane

John, you, as my friend, will allow me to ad this to your post.

Sportmanship is the word that has been missing on some of these
posts.

Sportsmanship typically is regarded as a component of morality in
sport, composed of three related and perhaps overlapping concepts:
fair play, sportsmanship and character. Fair play refers to all
participants having an equitable chance to pursue victory and acting
toward others in an honest, straightforward, and firm and dignified
manner even when others do not play fairly. It includes respect for
others, including team members, opponents, and officials. Character
refers to dispositions, values, and habits that determine the way that
person normally responds to desires, fears, challenges, opportunities,
failures, and successes, and is typically seen in polite behaviors
toward others, such as helping an opponent up or shaking hands after a
match. An individual is believed to have a “good character” when those
dispositions and habits reflect core ethical values.


Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will
be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness,
ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors.

We stand alone on our acts yet the respect and camaraderie we have
towards each other comes from the sportsmanship we display during
events inwhich we enjoy being envolved in. Thier can be no sport
without sportmanship.

Thomas Kelley #711.

1) QT, Dave, and a few others: Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

....If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

....If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

....If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

....That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?


In Summary: I just don't understand. I simply don't. Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. Yes, its a danger. Yes, it should be
prevented. But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)

Amen Noel.

On Feb 15, 4:48*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
1) QT, Dave, and a few others: *Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. *I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. *The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. *It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: *If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). * *But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. *The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. *If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). *They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. *Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. *This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. *This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. *XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. *It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! *If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. *The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. *Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... *Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? *If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

...If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

...That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. *And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?

In Summary: *I just don't understand. *I simply don't. *Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. *Yes, its a danger. *Yes, it should be
prevented. *But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? *And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)


Enforcement of the rule comes from Sportmanship. Its us, its that
simple. We act alone on this issue but stand together in the
definition of "Sportsmanship".

The cell phone issue is simple, Wal Mart, a $20 cell answers this
issue. Many do this as we also have Androids but don't carry them
during a SSA contest.

Going IMC, meaning into a cloud, flight below VFR minimums, IS
AVOIDABLE. Enough said their.

The rules do have an effect, as it is now expected of all entrants to
display Sportmanship while racing in SSA contests.

Noel, like no PDA to fly with?? No cell or Spot?? Just good old
charts, a wiz wheel and knowing the task area? Like real airmanship
and looking outside? Dang, bring it on, lets race, you made my day.

Yes, enforcement can happen and will. As during the 18 Meter Nationals
several years back. Several were carrying Android phones or
BlackBerrys. I, yes, I, stood up during the pilots meeting and spoke
of Sportmanship. After my brief talk, a senior old rules commititte
guy spoke. He made it very clear. Unsportsmanlike conduct can be as
sever as a ban from SSA contests for up to 5 years. Carrying these
devices can be considered unsportmanslike conduct. After the meeting,
those 2 folks went and got new cells to carry with them, from Wal
Mart. Ahhhhhh............they never once complained.

Again, we stand as one, meaning we are each responcible for our
actions, but together we bring under the definition of "Sportmanship"
a sport inwhich we race in. We also know that our peers have given
much thought to these topics.

Its been posted way before this on the "how to's" of rule changes. As
at shopping in Sears, its the "best" way.

Thomas Kelley #711.

On Feb 15, 9:34*pm, Tom Kelley wrote:
On Feb 15, 4:48*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:









1) QT, Dave, and a few others: *Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. *I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. *The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. *It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: *If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). * *But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. *The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. *If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). *They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. *Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. *This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. *This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. *XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. *It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! *If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. *The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. *Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... *Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? *If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

...If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

...That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. *And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?

In Summary: *I just don't understand. *I simply don't. *Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. *Yes, its a danger. *Yes, it should be
prevented. *But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? *And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)

Enforcement of the rule comes from Sportmanship. Its us, its that
simple. We act alone on this issue but stand together in the
definition of "Sportsmanship".

The cell phone issue is simple, Wal Mart, a $20 cell answers this
issue. Many do this as we also have Androids but don't carry them
during a SSA contest.

Going IMC, meaning into a cloud, flight below VFR minimums, IS
AVOIDABLE. Enough said their.

The rules do have an effect, as it is now expected of all entrants to
display Sportmanship while racing in SSA contests.

Noel, like no PDA to fly with?? No cell or Spot?? Just good old
charts, a wiz wheel and knowing the task area? Like real airmanship
and looking outside? Dang, bring it on, lets race, you made my day.

Yes, enforcement can happen and will. As during the 18 Meter Nationals
several years back. Several were carrying Android phones or
BlackBerrys. I, yes, I, stood up during the pilots meeting and spoke
of Sportmanship. After my brief talk, a senior old rules commititte
guy spoke. He made it very clear. Unsportsmanlike conduct can be as
sever as a ban from SSA contests for up to 5 years. Carrying these
devices can be considered unsportmanslike conduct. After the meeting,
those 2 folks went and got new cells to carry with them, from Wal
Mart. Ahhhhhh............they never once complained.

Again, we stand as one, meaning we are each responcible for our
actions, but together we bring under the definition of "Sportmanship"
a sport inwhich we race in. We also know that our peers have given
much thought to these topics.

Its been posted way before this on the "how to's" of rule changes. As
at shopping in Sears, its the "best" way.

Thomas Kelley #711.

What are you going to do once the only phones available are smart
phones?
If I have to leave my current phone behind to go to a contest I am
done with contests.

While I have no strong opinion on AH in a cockpit please keep your
hands away from my phone!

On Feb 15, 10:17*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:34*pm, Tom Kelley wrote:









On Feb 15, 4:48*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:

1) QT, Dave, and a few others: *Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. *I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. *The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. *It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: *If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). * *But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. *The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. *If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). *They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. *Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. *This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. *This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. *XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. *It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! *If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. *The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. *Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... *Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? *If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

...If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

...That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. *And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?

In Summary: *I just don't understand. *I simply don't. *Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. *Yes, its a danger. *Yes, it should be
prevented. *But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? *And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)

Enforcement of the rule comes from Sportmanship. Its us, its that
simple. We act alone on this issue but stand together in the
definition of "Sportsmanship".

The cell phone issue is simple, Wal Mart, a $20 cell answers this
issue. Many do this as we also have Androids but don't carry them
during a SSA contest.

Going IMC, meaning into a cloud, flight below VFR minimums, IS
AVOIDABLE. Enough said their.

The rules do have an effect, as it is now expected of all entrants to
display Sportmanship while racing in SSA contests.

Noel, like no PDA to fly with?? No cell or Spot?? Just good old
charts, a wiz wheel and knowing the task area? Like real airmanship
and looking outside? Dang, bring it on, lets race, you made my day.

Yes, enforcement can happen and will. As during the 18 Meter Nationals
several years back. Several were carrying Android phones or
BlackBerrys. I, yes, I, stood up during the pilots meeting and spoke
of Sportmanship. After my brief talk, a senior old rules commititte
guy spoke. He made it very clear. Unsportsmanlike conduct can be as
sever as a ban from SSA contests for up to 5 years. Carrying these
devices can be considered unsportmanslike conduct. After the meeting,
those 2 folks went and got new cells to carry with them, from Wal
Mart. Ahhhhhh............they never once complained.

Again, we stand as one, meaning we are each responcible for our
actions, but together we bring under the definition of "Sportmanship"
a sport inwhich we race in. We also know that our peers have given
much thought to these topics.

Its been posted way before this on the "how to's" of rule changes. As
at shopping in Sears, its the "best" way.

Thomas Kelley #711.

What are you going to do once the only phones available are smart
phones?
If I have to leave my current phone behind to go to a contest I am
done with contests.

While I have no strong opinion on AH in a cockpit please keep your
hands away from my phone!

Tom does have a point. Buy a cheap phone, put it on your existing
service. Charge it, test it, turn it off, put it in the glider and
leave it there. I'd do that.

Looks like you can still get them. Perhaps $30 on Amazon. Big
deal... not.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On 2/15/2012 7:43 PM, T8 wrote:
Tom does have a point. Buy a cheap phone, put it on your existing
service. Charge it, test it, turn it off, put it in the glider and
leave it there. I'd do that.

Looks like you can still get them. Perhaps $30 on Amazon. Big
deal... not.

Walmart offers over 20 phones online, from $10 to $30. Many are
available at the stores. Voice and text communication would seem to be
adequate for calling your crew if you landout in a contest - and get a
SPOT if you want to improve your chances. Even a smartphone won't work
some places, especially in the West.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Feb 15, 8:07*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Walmart offers over 20 phones online, from $10 to $30. Many are
available at the stores. Voice and text communication would seem to be
adequate for calling your crew if you landout in a contest - and get a
SPOT if you want to improve your chances. Even a smartphone won't work
some places, especially in the West.

Banning just smart phones would do very little:

http://tech.yostengineering.com/3-sp...mily/bluetooth
http://www.x-io.co.uk/node/9

These are just two examples of several such devices on the market. In
essence, to prevent use of devices like this, it woud be necessary to
ban all programmable Bluetooth-capable PDA, PNA, smart phone, and
tablet devices, or search the gliders and frisk the pilots on a daily
basis. I am 100% in favor of the cloud-flying ban in US contests, but
this technology is advancing faster than the RC will be able to keep
up with. Given that I flew (and occasionally won) in regionals for
several years using homebrew software running on various odd PDA-like
devices, I have reason to be concerned with the direction this
discussion seems to be heading. Deal with cloud-flying harshly as
unsportsmanlike behavior when detected, but don't pretend the problem
can be solved by banning entire categories of equipment...

Marc

On Feb 15, 9:34Â*pm, Tom Kelley wrote:
On Feb 15, 4:48Â*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:





1) QT, Dave, and a few others: Â*Sorry, I guess I was being too clever
and my comment was misinterpreted. I wasn't questioning when the new
start rules were put in place. Â*I *know* when they were put in place.
I was driving at the fact that the newer start rules themselves stop
people from cloud-flying before going through the gate. Â*The 2-minute-
below-start-cylinder-height rule effectively removes any incentive to
cloud-fly, as long as the start cylinder height is set 500' (or more)
below the day's cloudbase. Â*It doesn't have to be some onerously-low
start height; anything reasonable will do as long as its below
cloudbase.

2) Tom, UH, and John: Â*If we're going to talk about the honor system
and sportsmanship and stuff (all things I support and concur with you
on), then WHY are we so adamantly in-favor of this rule, and having it
so detrimentally iron-clad-no-matter-the-unintended-consequences?

Let me try to state the issue clearly one more time:

The rules right now have ZERO exceptions for any device that could
*possibly* be used for an AH (whether or not it is used for such
purposes). Â* Â*But a large number of smartphones have MEMS gyros in
them already. Â*The rules -AS WRITTEN- make it illegal for contest
pilots to fly with these smartphones. Â*If they want to be contest-
legal, they must buy a different cell phone (or fly without a cell
phone and risk landing out with no good way to contact their crew).

-----
QUESTION 1: Is it really our intention to stop people from flying with
cell phones?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Similarly, the rules -AS WRITTEN- don't say that if the device its OK
to have something in the cockpit if its is a "bad AH" (regardless of
what people here have said). Â*They say if it *could* be used, then its
forbidden... period. Â*Ergo, you cannot carry that equipment in the
cockpit. Â*This rules out a bunch of PDAs, PNAs, and other cheap/free
software. Â*This is the same software that allows new pilots - like me
- to get into contests and fly them on a reasonable budget. Â*XCSoar
and LK8000 have helped me to win contest days and consistently finish
in a high position at Regional contests around the western US over the
last 3 years. Â*It was HUGELY beneficial not to have to buy a $3000
flight computer! Â*If I had been required to do so, I *never* would
have become a contest pilot. Â*The ironclad AH rules cut off all
current and future contest pilots who fly on a budget using free
software and readily-available hardware that makes XC flying safer and
easier. Â*Since the AH is driven by software, there's no way to
physically disable these features and guarantee they stay turned off
for 2+ weeks.

We've got UH and others working hard to increase participation
(witness the positive discussions about the Standard Class)... Â*Yet
here we are, putting up big barriers to participation!

-----
QUESTION 2: Is it really our intent to make it harder and more
expensive to participate in contests?
-----

...If not, perhaps we should come up with a better rule!

Some of you are adamantly stating that we must have these rules, but
then you imply that we won't enforce them.

-----
QUESTION 3 (and 4): If we're not going to enforce the rules, why the
hell have them in the first place? Â*If people know they're not going
to be enforced, what's it going to do to stop them?
-----

...If the rules don't actually have an effect, perhaps we should come
up with a better rule!

-----
QUESTION 5: If someone is hell-bent on winning, why not protest
everyone in the contest who has a modern cell-phone in their cockpit,
and then just walk out with the trophy?
-----

...That's a hell of a lot easier than cloud-flying, and a whole lot
smarter!

Finally, if someone is insane and wants to cloud-fly, there are any
number of MEMS-gyro-equipped PDAs, PNAs, tablets (or the afore-
mentioned smartphones) that they can hide in the cockpit until after
takeoff. Â*And if they're devious enough to do that, what is this rule
doing to stop them?

In Summary: Â*I just don't understand. Â*I simply don't. Â*Yes, cloud-
flying used to happen. Â*Yes, its a danger. Â*Yes, it should be
prevented. Â*But you're telling me that the best solution is an
outdated rule that does more harm than good and can't really be
enforced? Â*And that we'll all just look the other way when it comes
time to fly?

There has to be a better way.

--Noel
(who may not be able to fly contests in 2012 because he uses free
software on a PDA)

Enforcement of the rule comes from Sportmanship. Its us, its that
simple. We act alone on this issue but stand together in the
definition of "Sportsmanship".

The cell phone issue is simple, Wal Mart, a $20 cell answers this
issue. Many do this as we also have Androids but don't carry them
during a SSA contest.

Going IMC, meaning into a cloud, flight below VFR minimums, IS
AVOIDABLE. Enough said their.

The rules do have an effect, as it is now expected of all entrants to
display Sportmanship while racing in SSA contests.

Noel, like no PDA to fly with?? No cell or Spot?? Just good old
charts, a wiz wheel and knowing the task area? Like real airmanship
and looking outside? Dang, bring it on, lets race, you made my day.

Yes, enforcement can happen and will. As during the 18 Meter Nationals
several years back. Several were carrying Android phones or
BlackBerrys. I, yes, I, stood up during the pilots meeting and spoke
of Sportmanship. After my brief talk, a senior old rules commititte
guy spoke. He made it very clear. Unsportsmanlike conduct can be as
sever as a ban from SSA contests for up to 5 years. Carrying these
devices can be considered unsportmanslike conduct. After the meeting,
those 2 folks went and got new cells to carry with them, from Wal
Mart. Ahhhhhh............they never once complained.

Again, we stand as one, meaning we are each responcible for our
actions, but together we bring under the definition of "Sportmanship"
a sport inwhich we race in. We also know that our peers have given
much thought to these topics.

Its been posted way before this on the "how to's" of rule changes. As
at shopping in Sears, its the "best" way.

Thomas Kelley #711.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Tom - thanks for reminding all of our friends of the associated rules
shown immediately below which have also been in place for quite some
time. I guess I missed that meeting.
UH

6.6 Restricted Equipment

6.6.1 Each sailplane is prohibited from carrying any instrument which:

• Permits flight without reference to the ground.

• Is capable of measuring air motion or temperature at a distance
greater than one wingspan.

6.6.2 An external cleaning device is any device with moving parts
designed to clean the exterior of the sailplane during flight. In
certain

classes (Rule 6.12), the use of such devices is prohibited.

6.6.3 ‡ Carrying any two-way communication device is prohibited, with
the following exceptions, each of which must be a standard,

commercially available model that is not used to provide any in-flight
capabilities beyond those referenced below:

6.6.3.1 ‡ An aircraft-band VHF radio

6.6.3.2 ‡ An aircraft transponder

6.6.3.3 ‡ A wireless telephone (which is not to be used during flight)

6.6.3.4 ‡ A air-to-ground position reporting device

6.6.3.5 ‡ anti-collision device. Rule 6.6.3 does not forbid the use of
a standard GPS output data stream or GPS log produced by

the device.

6.6.4 Other than an aircraft-band VHF radio, any device that allows in-
flight access to weather data is prohibited.

6.6.5 Violations of any provisions of this Rule are considered
Unsportsmanlike Conduct. (Penalty described in Rule 12.2.5.3.)

On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:17:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
6.6.3 ‡ Carrying any two-way communication device is prohibited, with
the following exceptions, each of which must be a standard,

commercially available model that is not used to provide any in-flight
capabilities beyond those referenced below:

6.6.3.1 ‡ An aircraft-band VHF radio

6.6.3.2 ‡ An aircraft transponder

6.6.3.3 ‡ A wireless telephone (which is not to be used during flight)

6.6.3.4 ‡ A air-to-ground position reporting device

6.6.3.5 ‡ anti-collision device. Rule 6.6.3 does not forbid the use of
a standard GPS output data stream or GPS log produced by

the device.

6.6.4 Other than an aircraft-band VHF radio, any device that allows in-
flight access to weather data is prohibited.

6.6.5 Violations of any provisions of this Rule are considered
Unsportsmanlike Conduct. (Penalty described in Rule 12.2.5.3.)

Hank, John Squared, et. al.,

You guys already know how much I appreciate your service and dedication, so I'll move right along...

Look at rule 6.6.3.3. Now let's think about it. We CAN carry a "wireless telephone", but we are on the honor system not to use it in flight. Frankly, it's a completely unenforcable rule, right? I could easily use it to cheat. I could call my crew and ask them to bring up the latest hi-res satellite loop on the laptop. "It looks like it's ODing toward the second turn -how's it look to you?" Heck, I could call my friend 2,000 miles away if he or she is sitting at a computer. Obviously, it's less convenient than doing it right in the cockpit using my smartphone. But, it's somewhere on the cheating continuum. Of course, I could do that on the "company frequency" using my good old VHF radio, running a slight risk that someone might be snooping on that frequency. Don't tell me it's never been done. So, following the logic of banning instruments with the potential to give an unfair advantage to someone willing to cheat...

I for one am certainly NOT arguing for cloud flying, nor am I buying the argument that having these instruments enhances safety. I am in the camp that says technology is moving faster than the rules can keep up (Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns). I have more computing, communications, and sensing power in my Android phone than the Space Shuttle had when it first came out for less than the cost of a NASA toilet paper holder. We can't even imagine what's going to be possible in just a couple of years.

I think it's time to get back to communicating the broad principles and get out of the business of trying to police cockpit technology. Yes, a few unscrupulous sorts will try to take advantage. A few may even succeed. Those few will have to live with the knowlege that they violated the trust of fellow pilots. That should be punishment enough.

Sincerely,
Erik Mann