Rumsfeld and flying

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Rumsfeld and flying
From: "Jim Baker"
Date: 3/7/04 8:01 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Rumsfeld and flying
From: "Pete"
Date: 3/6/04 9:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: wLy2c.2040$iy.1385@fe2

You don't always get to choose/volunteer, and the needs of the
military
outweigh...

The Marines who stormed the beaches of the pacific got what they
volunteered
for., The airborne that held Bastogne got what they volunteered for.
The
Air
Corps that took devastating losses over Berlin and Ploesti got what
they
volunteered for., The Suubmariners got what they volunteered for.
Maybe
some
of those who didn't volunteer didn't try hard enough. Think that is a
possibility?


Arthur Kramer

Here's a thread within the thread that you may just be ill informed about
Art, since it's been 50+ years since you've been in the military.
There's
no "volunteering" to go to war in the USAF. You go where your unit is
ordered to go. As a pilot, there's almost no chance to cross train into
an
aircraft that is flying in a war from one that is not. Take this for the
truth it is from someone who served 20 years on active duty and missed DS
because his aircraft wasn't involved. There was no where I could go to
volunteer, no form I could fill out, to get into that war. Now, if the
war
goes on for 5-6 years, you might have a chance...but we've not had one of
those in 30+ years, much longer than the normal AF career. So reevaluate
your thoughts on this concept you have that only slackers/cowards don't
get
into a war...it's incorrect for 30+ years for all instances other than
wars
lasting many years.

JB
Bomber Pilot (ret)




That is the first rational post on the subject yet. Thanks. What did you
fly?


Arthur Kramer

Just back from a drive down the coast. What a beautiful day in SoCal.

I flew T-38s, B-52s and B-1Bs.

Another thing I noticed in your posts Art. You have a problem with
Instructor Pilots who haven't been to war. In the USAF of the mid '70s on,
there were a ton of First Assignment IPs. I mean most of them were FAIPs.
These FAIPs, and all the other flying instructors, weren't teaching mission
flying, they were teaching get-your-wings-flying. There were a few in the
squadron that had been in SEA, and I flew with most of them. Guess what,
they didn't fly any better than the FAIPs (after some time, of course). The
skill and savy they'd picked up in combat wasn't what was being taught in
UPT. They had good stories to tell, but everyone as an IP had to teach to
the standards in the syllabus, so their studs could pass their checkride,
and none of that involved air-air combat or IP to target flying. It
involved learning to fly precise formation and instruments. The IPs that
had SEA experience were better off being sent to FTUs, as many of them were,
where mission qual training was being conducted. But, as I said, it didn't
matter a wit in UPT and I'm sure most non-FAIP, UPT IPs would generally
agree. Of course, we all hated being FAIPs, we wanted to get out into the
real world. But, c,est la guerre! (sp?)

JB

Subject: Rumsfeld and flying
From: "Jim Baker"
Date: 3/7/04 3:38 PM Pacific Standard Time

nother thing I noticed in your posts Art. You have a problem with
Instructor Pilots who haven't been to war. In the USAF of the mid '70s on,

I have no problem with them at all. But their students might. That is what my
question was about. I was a bombardier navigator (MOS 1035). Pilot training is
totaly out of my expertise.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer