How did the Brits do it?

As the war progressed navigational aids like Gee and Oboe along
with Radar aids like H2S and the use of Pathfinders did improve
accuracy a great deal so that by 1944 the RAF were able to
atatck and obliterate targets varying from troop concentrations
in Normandy to entire cities.

Keith


Of course Gee Box and Oboe came very late in the war. I flew a number of
Gee
missions as the war drew to a close. But how anyone can do long range
dead
reckoning when wind drift and velocity cannot be reliably determined, with
no
view of the stars or gound, makes things a bit hopeless. But I would say
that
90% or more of those missions were flown without any electronic or radar
aids
at all.

Not really Art

Bomber command flew its first mission using Gee in late 1941.

On March 3 1942 the first major raid that utilised gee equipped
aircraft dropping flares for the main force was made against the
Renault works at Billancourt in France. 223 of 235 aircraft
found their target). Losses were very light (one Wellington was lost)
, and damage was evaluated as 'heavy'

By mid summer 1942 almost all BC aircraft had Gee. H2S began
arriving in service in 1943.



We didn't get Gee until late in 1944 when we flew our first Gee mission..Hated
it because we couldn't see the damage we had (or had not) done. I remember the
briefing before the first Gee mission. we were ttoldf the Germans knew nothing
about Gee. On our first mission we got German jamming grass over our scopes.
Not too efficient because we could still see the blips and complete the mission
ok.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


We didn't get Gee until late in 1944 when we flew our first Gee
mission..Hated
it because we couldn't see the damage we had (or had not) done. I remember
the
briefing before the first Gee mission. we were ttoldf the Germans knew
nothing
about Gee. On our first mission we got German jamming grass over our
scopes.
Not too efficient because we could still see the blips and complete the
mission
ok.


It would be a matter of priorities, the night bombers got Gee first
because they needed it more and the Pathfinder Squadrons had
priority within Bomber Command

Keith

In message , ArtKramr
writes


snip

We didn't get Gee until late in 1944 when we flew our first Gee mission..Hated
it because we couldn't see the damage we had (or had not) done. I remember the
briefing before the first Gee mission. we were ttoldf the Germans knew nothing
about Gee. On our first mission we got German jamming grass over our scopes.
Not too efficient because we could still see the blips and complete the mission
ok.

I used Gee III once, in a Javelin. Trouble was by the time I'd lined up
the pips and plotted onto a chart we were 60 miles further on...

450 knots does that.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

Subject: How did the Brits do it?
From: "M. J. Powell"
Date: 3/10/04 3:14 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes


snip

We didn't get Gee until late in 1944 when we flew our first Gee
mission..Hated
it because we couldn't see the damage we had (or had not) done. I remember
the
briefing before the first Gee mission. we were ttoldf the Germans knew
nothing
about Gee. On our first mission we got German jamming grass over our scopes.
Not too efficient because we could still see the blips and complete the
mission
ok.

I used Gee III once, in a Javelin. Trouble was by the time I'd lined up
the pips and plotted onto a chart we were 60 miles further on...

450 knots does that.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell


We didn't do it that way. when the pips came together it was bombs away and
g'bye Fritz.

..



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

We didn't get Gee until late in 1944 when we flew our first Gee
mission..Hated
it because we couldn't see the damage we had (or had not) done. I remember
the
briefing before the first Gee mission. we were ttoldf the Germans knew
nothing
about Gee.

Art that Intel Weinie was playing with you - the Germans knew enough about GEE
that by 1944, they had already lost more than one Luftwaffe aircraft that was
confirmed to carry a GEE reciever! One of the few times in WWII that both
sides were using a piece of the same electronic gear, for the same purpose.
They built "Rotterdam" / H2S duplicates as well.

v/r
Gordon

Subject: How did the Brits do it?
From: nt (Krztalizer)
Date: 3/10/04 4:41 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

We didn't get Gee until late in 1944 when we flew our first Gee
mission..Hated
it because we couldn't see the damage we had (or had not) done. I remember
the
briefing before the first Gee mission. we were ttoldf the Germans knew
nothing
about Gee.

Art that Intel Weinie was playing with you - the Germans knew enough about
GEE
that by 1944, they had already lost more than one Luftwaffe aircraft that was
confirmed to carry a GEE reciever! One of the few times in WWII that both
sides were using a piece of the same electronic gear, for the same purpose.
They built "Rotterdam" / H2S duplicates as well.

v/r
Gordon


The moment I saw all that grass jamming my screen I figured as much.
(grin)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

nt (Krztalizer) writes:

They built "Rotterdam" / H2S duplicates as well.

H2S was forbidden over land for quite a while. It was vital to the
Uboat campaign and the boffins figured that if used over Germany,
one *would* be captured and the secret blown. [There was no way to
destroy the magnatron w/o taking out the aircraft as well....]

They were right.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote:

nt (Krztalizer) writes:

They built "Rotterdam" / H2S duplicates as well.

H2S was forbidden over land for quite a while. It was vital to the
Uboat campaign and the boffins figured that if used over Germany,
one *would* be captured and the secret blown. [There was no way to
destroy the magnatron w/o taking out the aircraft as well....]

That argument was made by the RN/Coastal Command, but Bomber Command
won the decision (by Churchill), and H2S went into service over land
right away. And a more or less intact magnetron was captured on one of
the very first missions, from a Stirling shot down near/over Rotterdam
(whence its German code name, Rotterdam Gerate) on 2 February 1943.

Guy

David Lesher wrote in message ...

nt (Krztalizer) writes:

They built "Rotterdam" / H2S duplicates as well.

H2S was forbidden over land for quite a while. It was vital to the
Uboat campaign and the boffins figured that if used over Germany,
one *would* be captured and the secret blown. [There was no way to
destroy the magnatron w/o taking out the aircraft as well....]

They were right.


If it was that vital they would not have used it. The people who
'defined' vital were trying to bomb Germany. Oddly enough it was
Bomber Harris who appreciated that bombing U-Boat yards and basses was
a complete waste of effort.

The Germans were scammed into thinking their Metox boxes were leaking
radiation which were being used to track them. It was a technical
possibility and so they bought into it. That delayed the development
of a H2S detector (Naxos).

Ganton Pretz wrote:

If it was that vital they would not have used it. The people who
'defined' vital were trying to bomb Germany. Oddly enough it was
Bomber Harris who appreciated that bombing U-Boat yards and basses was
a complete waste of effort.

The Germans were scammed into thinking their Metox boxes were leaking
radiation which were being used to track them. It was a technical
possibility and so they bought into it. That delayed the development
of a H2S detector (Naxos).

What did "H2S" stand for, anyway. (Sounds like dihydrogen sulphide to
me.) Sorry if it has already been posted, I missed that part of the
thread.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)