PowerFLARM updates and installation notes

On May 31, 8:52*pm, Tim Taylor wrote:
On May 31, 6:21*pm, Ramy wrote:









On Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:47:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:17:17 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:

You have to admit that the huge honking dipole antenna, coax cable,
and mount, right in the middle of where you want to look on the
glareshield amounts to Chinese torture. Or at least will not make for
any cool industrial design awards.

http://powerflarm.us/wp-content/uplo...dipole_SH..jpg

I hope to heaven you guys can work out a prettier antenna and
installation.

Thanks to Dave and PowerFLARM US for the hard work at Perry and Mifflin to improve the PowerFLARM range issue. However I totally agree with John regarding the uglyness and size of the dipole antenna in the above URL. Forgive me for being reckless with my opinion but that installation sucks and is just not acceptable in the middle of one's vision field. My PowerFLARM order is "on hold" until a "no restricted vision" antenna is available. Please, please come up with something better.

I second that. As much as I am advocating for powerflarm, I did not envision having to look through something like that, nor even through 2 rubber duckies that going all the way to the canopy. I sure hope there is less intrusive solution, even if it will reduce the range a little. BTW, I flew with my MRX PCAS antenna horizontally for years from the same reason and there was no noticable reduction in range, but I understand that powerflarm is much more sensitive to antenna installation. I sure hope a clean installation which does not interfere with visibility is available. After all, a powerflarm is no good if it reduces forward visibility.

Ramy

I was involved with installing about seven units and all were much
more elegant than what you see on the web page. *Mine is installed
about 4" in front on my compass that is on top of the glare screen. I
only see the top 1.5 inches of the antenna which is very small and
narrow. * Many others put the bulk below the glare screen with only
the top 1.5 inches showing.

It would be nice to see the antenna have the cable come in from one
end rather than at the middle. Remember what you see so far were done
in a loaned hanger on a rainy day in the midst of a contest. *Evan's
is installed below and mine is very unobtrusive in flight.

In a Schleicher installation, about 50% of the dipole will be below
the glare shield. What's visible in my case may not be pretty, but I
don't find it distracting or obstructing, any more so than my yaw
string. I'll get some pics next opportunity. This really isn't a big
deal, imo. If you think it might be a big deal, please keep an open
mind until you see a good installation in a cockpit similar to what
ever you fly.

Evan Ludeman / T8

Ok, that's sound better, having only part of the antenna sticking out. But it is kind of contradicting what I read in Dave's link. And I understand that since focusing on infinity it is less of a problem, but still annoying and unaesthetic to have the hole dipol antenna in front of your eyes all the time.
I would like to see more photos of brick antenna and remote display installations.
Also, what about external antennas near the gear similar to transponder antennas?

Ramy

That first "good" installation photo shows the coax feed rounted down alongside the lower driven element. From my old Navy ET days*, a normal center fed dipole coax wants to be routed at 90 degrees away from the antenna for as far as possible, otherwise the coax braid (outer conductor) becomes a parasitic element and increases SWR losses.

*Course that was almost 50 years ago and much has changed since then (g).

bumper

Much as I like the idea of PowerFLARM and think it could really
contribute to safety I have to say that even the "good" installations
shown look like the work of Red Green.

On May 31, 8:42*pm, Ramy wrote:
Ok, that's sound better, having only part of the antenna sticking out. But it is kind of contradicting what I read in Dave's link. And I understand that since focusing on infinity it is less of a problem, but still annoying and unaesthetic to have the hole dipol antenna in front of your eyes all the time.
I would like to see more photos of brick antenna and remote display installations.
Also, what about external antennas near the gear similar to transponder antennas?

Ramy

I talked to Dave about this at Mifflin.

Like you guys, mounting the coax and center part under the instrument
panel with one end of the dipole sticking through a hole seemed like a
sensible compromise. It also addresses the issue that you Will Not
Install anything that is stuck to a Schleicher glareshield, otherwise
the canopy will not release in an emergency. This is a serious issue,
Sailplane and Gliding reported a fatal crash a while ago because a
pilot could not release the canopy to jump out, with pda wires holding
the canopy on.

At Mifflin, Dave said no, no, no -- the antenna needs to be higher
than that. Some more official confirmation would be nice -- we really
need to try that kind of installation and see what the range is. One
of Dave's issues is that a lower antenna will be blocked by instrument
cases and all the other metal that is behind the glareshield. A good
point.

And as the other say...c'mon guys, surely there is a better solution
somewhere at Antennas R Us.

I plan to install the brick with this silly antenna, and hope that if
we all keep complaining flarm will come up with something more
acceptable. Replacing antenna will be easy.

John Cochrane

On Jun 1, 8:54*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
On May 31, 8:42*pm, Ramy wrote:

Ok, that's sound better, having only part of the antenna sticking out. But it is kind of contradicting what I read in Dave's link. And I understand that since focusing on infinity it is less of a problem, but still annoying and unaesthetic to have the hole dipol antenna in front of your eyes all the time.
I would like to see more photos of brick antenna and remote display installations.
Also, what about external antennas near the gear similar to transponder antennas?

Ramy

I talked to Dave about this at Mifflin.

Like you guys, mounting the coax and center part under the instrument
panel with one end of the dipole sticking through a hole seemed like a
sensible compromise. It also addresses the issue that you Will Not
Install anything that is stuck to a Schleicher glareshield, otherwise
the canopy will not release in an emergency. This is a serious issue,
Sailplane and Gliding reported a fatal crash a while ago because a
pilot could not release the canopy to jump out, with pda wires holding
the canopy on.

At Mifflin, Dave said no, no, no -- the antenna needs to be higher
than that. Some more official confirmation would be nice -- we really
need to try that kind of installation and see what the range is. One
of Dave's issues is that a lower antenna will be blocked by instrument
cases and all the other metal that is behind the glareshield. A good
point.

And as the other say...c'mon guys, surely there is a better solution
somewhere at Antennas R Us.

I plan to install the brick with this silly antenna, and hope that if
we all keep complaining flarm will come up with something more
acceptable. Replacing antenna will be easy.

John Cochrane

The antennas supplied with PowerFlarm appear to be off the shelf
commercial stuff. They're functional, but hardly ideal.

Here http://www.linxtechnologies.com/prod...ipole-antenna/

is a 900 MHz dipole that although a bit long (4.5") is at least very
thin one way (3/16") and locates the coax feed on the end. With just
a little bit of sailplane application specific engineering, much less
obnoxious designs are surely possible.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Seems to be my week for obviously dumb questions, but I'll venture forth, nonetheless...

If the cockpit has no carbon, is it possible to mount the PF antenna behind the pilot's head?

My Kestrel 19 has an utility shelf behind my head, with clear canopy above that. Seems to me that there's a clear view of the sky and only fibreglass behind it, so should get good reception all around.

- John
(PF is next on my wish list)

On Jun 1, 8:31*am, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:54*am, John Cochrane
wrote:









On May 31, 8:42*pm, Ramy wrote:

Ok, that's sound better, having only part of the antenna sticking out.. But it is kind of contradicting what I read in Dave's link. And I understand that since focusing on infinity it is less of a problem, but still annoying and unaesthetic to have the hole dipol antenna in front of your eyes all the time.
I would like to see more photos of brick antenna and remote display installations.
Also, what about external antennas near the gear similar to transponder antennas?

Ramy

I talked to Dave about this at Mifflin.

Like you guys, mounting the coax and center part under the instrument
panel with one end of the dipole sticking through a hole seemed like a
sensible compromise. It also addresses the issue that you Will Not
Install anything that is stuck to a Schleicher glareshield, otherwise
the canopy will not release in an emergency. This is a serious issue,
Sailplane and Gliding reported a fatal crash a while ago because a
pilot could not release the canopy to jump out, with pda wires holding
the canopy on.

At Mifflin, Dave said no, no, no -- the antenna needs to be higher
than that. Some more official confirmation would be nice -- we really
need to try that kind of installation and see what the range is. One
of Dave's issues is that a lower antenna will be blocked by instrument
cases and all the other metal that is behind the glareshield. A good
point.

And as the other say...c'mon guys, surely there is a better solution
somewhere at Antennas R Us.

I plan to install the brick with this silly antenna, and hope that if
we all keep complaining flarm will come up with something more
acceptable. Replacing antenna will be easy.

John Cochrane

The antennas supplied with PowerFlarm appear to be off the shelf
commercial stuff. *They're functional, but hardly ideal.

Herehttp://www.linxtechnologies.com/products/antennas/dipole/vdp-series-s....

is a 900 MHz dipole that although a bit long (4.5") is at least very
thin one way (3/16") and locates the coax feed on the end. *With just
a little bit of sailplane application specific engineering, much less
obnoxious designs are surely possible.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan:
Your website has all sorts of bottom-connected dipole antennas. Dave,
are you on frequency? At least a dipole with a connector and
attachment hardware on the bottom would seem to make a whole lot of
sense here!
John Cochrane

On Friday, June 1, 2012 10:58:10 AM UTC-7, C-FFKQ (42) wrote:
Seems to be my week for obviously dumb questions, but I'll venture forth, nonetheless...

If the cockpit has no carbon, is it possible to mount the PF antenna behind the pilot's head?

My Kestrel 19 has an utility shelf behind my head, with clear canopy above that. Seems to me that there's a clear view of the sky and only fibreglass behind it, so should get good reception all around.

- John
(PF is next on my wish list)

Obscuring the antenna, especially its forward view with a fat head is probably not a good idea. Get those antennas up front on top of the glareshield....

Darryl

Hmmm...let's see now.

Months behind schedule.

Expensive.

Very picky about installation.

Features that don't work or aren't turned on yet.

Documentation and manuals that may leave you with more questions than answers.

Programming and continual updating required.

Primary tech support located in another continent.

Another battery draw.

My retired-USAF-Avionics-tech Dad's advice given to me years ago circling in my head to "never drive, buy or fly the "A" model of anything mechanical, electrical or both."

-Insert your own concern here-

WOW! Who wouldn't want one???


I've got a "Brick" model (it DOES kinda make you wonder if it's appropriately named, no?) reserved in my name...but right now I'm 90% certain I'll forgo the promised discount, cancel my order and wait for Version B, C, D...or whatever when all the bugs are finally worked out and everything is turned on and operational. For the time being, I'll start using the Zaon PCAS that I just ordered for less than 1/3 the cost of the PF to at least keep me clear of the squawkers.

Sure wish the version used in Europe could just have been used here. Understand that was not in the cards for the USA, still...the hassle-factor of this device has crossed my (admittedly low) pain threshold and I believe I'll join the late bloomers and technology Luddites.

RS