hi alt oxygen

More trivia on flight and oxygen:
1) the F102 always gave us 100%- there was no diluter function. Some
ground-pounding designer made the decision we'd always be wearing
pressure suits to go after those high-altitude bombers. As it turned
out it generally took a direct order to get a pilot airborne in the
old skin-tight MC-3&4 partial pressure suits, because they were very
unconfortable and visual lookout was definitely impaired because you
had to use your free hand to shove your head around to look to each
side. Well, one of our guys came down with his lower face singed -
claimed the oxygen had flamed his moustache wax. Good story but what
had reallyy happened was that he forgot to shut off his oxygen when he
lit a cigarette . . .speaking of p-suits I always had a good laugh
when I saw the Russky pics of their MiG21 pilots walking along in
p-suits that looked jusy like our partial pressure suits. Their flight
surgeons were a lot more involved in daily activities than ours -
thank God.
Next story - this crusty old WW2 pilot and I were off to Tyndall from
RG in a T33 - the wx down there was DS and we were at about 37000 to
save enough fuel for an alternate. He tried to light a cig but it
wouldn't take - the next hour he spent whining at me because I
wouldn't descend so he could grab a smoke.
Bends - we used to get bubbles under our skin in the older T33s
because the pressurization was so weak. Felt like little bugs crawling
under the skin (mobile chiggers?). So before a p-suit flight we
normally prebreathed 100% O2 for 30 minutes to flush out the N2 to
minimize the chance of getting bends. We were on another U2 intercept
mission when my squadron mate stopped the flightline trolley, opened
up his faceplate, threw up, wiped off his lips, closed the faceplate
and motioned to the young, now wide-eyed, airman driver to press on.
Hangovers and p-suits don't really go together. He still hacked the
mission, though.
Speaking of nicotine fits - I had a friend who used to chew tobacco in
a 104 - he kept a Prince Albert can in his Gsuit pocket to catch the
spit. Never was able to bounce him at just the right time, though.
Being a non-smoker I just don't understand guys like that.
As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough. Both the Pikes Peak and Mt. Evans roads will
let you drive up over 14,000.
Walt BJ

On 11 Mar 2004 19:31:57 -0800, (WaltBJ) wrote:

MC-3&4 partial pressure suits, because they were very
unconfortable and visual lookout was definitely impaired because you
had to use your free hand to shove your head around to look to each
side.

Good grief!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On 11 Mar 2004 19:31:57 -0800, (WaltBJ) wrote:

Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

When I was a ski-bum at Aspen, the conventional wisdom in the ski
patrol was that the turkeys (paying customers) breathed too much, or
too often, or too deeply. They claimed that the most important part of
their kit was a paper bag. You gave it to the immobilized turkey and
made him breath into it for a time, thus getting more carbon dioxide
into his lungs.

Of course skiers are exercising, so perhaps more like to over-breathe
than under-breathe.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In article , WaltBJ
writes
More trivia on flight and oxygen:

SNIP of fascinating trivia about high altitude breathing - more welcome
anytime!

breathe (pant) enough. Both the Pikes Peak and Mt. Evans roads will
let you drive up over 14,000.
Walt BJ

I went to Pike's Peak many years ago and was told that the engines of
the VW we were trucked in had special aspiration arrangements - no
surprise there.

But the people didn't have the same arrangements! Soon after we
arrived, some kids started running around and throwing snowballs fairly
indiscriminately. But one guy just smiled and said 'Don't worry, folks,
it won't last long'. And how true, within a minute the kids were
horizontal... :-)

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

I never did find out what the critical altitude on the turbo was, but
judging by its performance on Trail Ridge that day it must have been well
over 14,000 feet (allowing for density altitude). Couldn't have a more
clear illustration of a turbo's thin air performance advantage than that.
I later took the car up to 13,200 feet in the White Mountains one
September with two people and gear, and I don't remember any altitude
problems there either, at least for the car (it was graded gravel and
dirt, so I wasn't driving very fast in any case). Both of _us_ had AMS
from ascending too fast from sea level, even though we'd slept at 9,000
feet the night before.

My Subaru Forester (some SOB stole my old Subie in its fifteenth year, or
I'd still be happily driving it) doesn't have a turbo (they only came out
with the XT turbo model in June or so of last year, and I had to buy a car
that January). It's got about 165 hp and more torque, so my old turbo
would come up short up to about 8,000 feet or so, but have more power
above that. Living in the SF Bay Area at sea level and driving up to the
Sierra it hasn't been a problem so far, but I have yet to carry that much
of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two
people and backpacking gear last August, so I probably don't need a turbo
here, and I'm happy not to have to worry about the turbo blowing up or
suffering other expensive problems (not that I had any, but I changed my
oil every 3,000 miles and let it idle down properly after hard driving).
But if I was living in Colorado up against the Front Range and/or
commuting across it, I'd sure want one. I've read that Subaru developed
the Turbo Forester XT precisely because the normally-aspirated model was
left gasping for breath commuting through the Eisenhower tunnel (@11,000
feet). As Homer Simpson might say, "210 hp all the way up, M'mm."

Guy

Guy wrote in (small) part:
The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite... The lower parking lot in
Bristlecone Forest is over 10 grand. I think there is an upper lot at about 12
-- which had my old Porsche 912 gasping. One of the treees there is arguably
the oldest living thing on our planet. Stunningly gorgeous drive. Do it!
The UC Berkeley research station on the top of White Mountain is about 14,250
feet up. Pretty sure road is paved, although not available to the public.
Bring your snow tractor in winter.

If you are unaccustomed to altitude and plan on such a trip, get a small squirt
bottle of "4-Way Nasal Spray." When you wake up in the middle of the night at
8K, gasping for air, stick in nose, squirt-squirt, and go back to sleep
breathing easily. Amazing.


Quent

QDurham wrote:

Guy wrote in (small) part:
The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite... The lower parking lot in
Bristlecone Forest is over 10 grand.

Yup, you're right, I couldn't remember if the pavement went all the way to Schulman
Grove (10,100 feet). At least when I first drove it 20-some years ago, IIRR the
pavement ran out somewhat lower, somewhere between Sierra Viewpoint @ 9,280 ft. and
Schulman. But unlike Hwy 120 over Tioga Pass, given the winding nature of the road
above Grandview Campground @ 8,500 feet, speed and passing ability really isn't an
issue there.

I think there is an upper lot at about 12
-- which had my old Porsche 912 gasping. One of the treees there is arguably
the oldest living thing on our planet.

Unless they've found an older one, Methuselah is at Schulman Grove, not the higher
Patriarch Grove (11,200 ft.)

Stunningly gorgeous drive. Do it!

Have. Also backpacked/skiied it ;-)


The UC Berkeley research station on the top of White Mountain is about 14,250
feet up. Pretty sure road is paved, although not available to the public.
Bring your snow tractor in winter.

It certainly wasn't paved the last time I was up there, around 1991 or 92.
Pavement runs out at Schulman, and it's graded dirt/gravel from there on to the Mt.
Barcroft Research Station @ 12,400 ft. (rather than the 13,200 I wrote in my
previous post. Mt. Barcroft itself is 13,040 -- I checked the topo to refresh my
memory), degrading to a jeep trail from there to the top. There's a gate 2 miles
short of Barcroft at around 11,700 or so, which is normally locked, motor vehicle
travel beyond it being for official use only, so private parties have to park at
the gate and hike/bike if they wish to go further. On that particular trip we were
able to drive right up to Barcroft because we were part of a class, and were
staying at the station that night. Oh, living rough, satellite TV, table tennis
and billiards! It seems to be a fairly popular mountain bike ride from the gate to
the top, being (IIRR) between 13-15 miles round trip, and I've also day-hiked to
the top and back from there in a fairly easy day (provided you've acclimatized and
are in good hiking shape).

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

Hmm, I was across Trail Ridge Road a couple of times last summer (same
trip) but never really noticed a loss of power there or down at Pike's Peak.
Just must not have been putting my foot in it hard enough to notice. That
and mass-air-flow sensors driving the fuel injection helps.

of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two

Nice developed campground up there, Tuolumne Meadows, only 8600'
but sub freezing temperatures of a night about anytime of the year. Good
tent sleeping.
Seems like the airliners come through that gap pretty low of a night.
Oh, watch the speed up there, the only place I've ever seen a National
Park Service radar speed trap, at 0-dark:30 no less.


Just to make some attempt to getting this on topic I'll mention that the
Navy has a mobile home or two parked at the top of Pike's Peak doing
some kind of aeronautical research.

John Keeney wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

Hmm, I was across Trail Ridge Road a couple of times last summer (same
trip) but never really noticed a loss of power there or down at Pike's Peak.
Just must not have been putting my foot in it hard enough to notice. That
and mass-air-flow sensors driving the fuel injection helps.

Modern computerized engine controls undoubtedly help, compared to older cars
tuned for sea level. but how much of a load were you hauling, and in what?

of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two

Nice developed campground up there, Tuolumne Meadows, only 8600'
but sub freezing temperatures of a night about anytime of the year. Good
tent sleeping.

It's even better sleeping on one of the domes like Pothole or Lembert, with the
sky as your roof. It's warmer and you've got a better view. Of course I would
never do such a thing (koff), as it's illegal. But I do spend a fair amount of
mountain time in/around Tuolomne.

Seems like the airliners come through that gap pretty low of a night.
Oh, watch the speed up there, the only place I've ever seen a National
Park Service radar speed trap, at 0-dark:30 no less.

Shockin' , jus' shockin' ;-). It's a great road to drive fast in the middle of
the night when the motorhomes and other tourists are all tucked up in bed,
coming up from Crane Flat on the west, but I do take it easy through the meadow
itself.

Just to make some attempt to getting this on topic I'll mention that the
Navy has a mobile home or two parked at the top of Pike's Peak doing
some kind of aeronautical research.

Likewise, I'll mention that there's a tanker track almost directly above the
White Mountains. I got to watch a Buff refueling from a KC-135 last time I was
up there, while taking breaks from reading "Desert Solitaire."

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
John Keeney wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo
4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a
week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and
half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than
I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a
sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed
what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so)
uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the
side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to
west
was the same.

Hmm, I was across Trail Ridge Road a couple of times last summer (same
trip) but never really noticed a loss of power there or down at Pike's
Peak.
Just must not have been putting my foot in it hard enough to notice.
That
and mass-air-flow sensors driving the fuel injection helps.

Modern computerized engine controls undoubtedly help, compared to older
cars
tuned for sea level. but how much of a load were you hauling, and in
what?

Not really hauling that much, I'ld be hard pressed to say what at the
moment.
The car was/is a '92 Buick Century four door with the 3.3L engine. The best
I recall the car stayed in high gear.
It's been considerable longer since I've been there (late 80's?), but seems
to
me the road coming into Yosemite from the east side was quite a bit steeper.

of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California
goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with
two

Nice developed campground up there, Tuolumne Meadows, only 8600'
but sub freezing temperatures of a night about anytime of the year. Good
tent sleeping.

It's even better sleeping on one of the domes like Pothole or Lembert,
with the
sky as your roof. It's warmer and you've got a better view. Of course I
would

I like the cold nights when I'm camping. Best night's sleep I've ever had
was in a tent at Tuolumne Meadows with a low of 28 degrees. Cooked
supper on the fire then spent the night up until about midnight in the
meadow watching the stars and planes. Back to the tent in the trees, sheet,
pillow, sleeping bag, socks and underwear, a wonderful night.

never do such a thing (koff), as it's illegal. But I do spend a fair
amount of
mountain time in/around Tuolomne.

I've got to admit, they make it illegal I'll most likely not do it. I'll
cuss
the idiots that put them in charge by hiring them or electing them but
they got there by the rules of the game and get to make the other rules.

Seems like the airliners come through that gap pretty low of a night.
Oh, watch the speed up there, the only place I've ever seen a National
Park Service radar speed trap, at 0-dark:30 no less.

Shockin' , jus' shockin' ;-). It's a great road to drive fast in the
middle of
the night when the motorhomes and other tourists are all tucked up in bed,
coming up from Crane Flat on the west, but I do take it easy through the
meadow
itself.

Just to make some attempt to getting this on topic I'll mention that the
Navy has a mobile home or two parked at the top of Pike's Peak doing
some kind of aeronautical research.

Likewise, I'll mention that there's a tanker track almost directly above
the
White Mountains. I got to watch a Buff refueling from a KC-135 last time
I was
up there, while taking breaks from reading "Desert Solitaire."