Texas Tragedy Info?

On Jun 19, 5:07*pm, FreeFlight107 wrote:
My real simple way to keep the dolly from being missed;

If I didn't remove it myself, or see a ground person carry it away, I
always ask the wing runner "Is the tail dolly removed?", before I
close the canopy.

My pretakeoff checklist

Altimeter (check all instruments)
Belts
Canopy (push up and really check. Guess how I know to do that)
Controls
Cable
wind Direction (plan for wind)
Dive Brakes (check flap setting at this time)
Tail Dolly (Do I really remember removing it? If not ask wing runner
to check)
Trim
Traffic (did wing runner look?)
Emergency plan

Though dolly usually is not a big cg issue, the combination of dolly
and lightweight passengers in the front seat could be.

There is an element of a good safety culture which involves a team.
Train the wing runners to visually check the glider over incluing a
pilots dive brakes and tail dolly when approaching the glider and
before leveling the wings. A simple word to the pilot just after
hooking up, dive brakes and dolly check can save tha day. Same with
noticing that low tire on the tug or a new oil slick on the fuselage.
A heads up wing runner can save they day but they need to be trained
to do this kind of thing in a culture that permits it.

Many years ago I moved wiggled the elavator of a friends ASW-20, now I
do not toch other peoples gliders as a rule, but in this case it was
disconnected - he was strapped in and next to launch on the grid. Now
that was an interesting conversation.

John Seaborn
A8

On Jun 19, 4:13*pm, Alpha Eight wrote:
There is an element of a good safety culture which involves a team.
Train the wing runners to visually check the glider over incluing a
pilots dive brakes and tail dolly when approaching the glider and
before leveling the wings. A simple word to the pilot just after
hooking up, dive brakes and dolly check can save tha day. Same with
noticing that low tire on the tug or a new oil slick on the fuselage.
A heads up wing runner can save they day but they need to be trained
to do this kind of thing in a culture that permits it.

Many years ago I moved wiggled the elavator of a friends ASW-20, now I
do not toch other peoples gliders as a rule, but in this case it was
disconnected - *he was strapped in and next to launch on the grid. Now
that was an interesting conversation.

John Seaborn
A8

Tail dollies and wing wheels, once removed are placed to the side,
forward of the wing tip where the pilot can see it, but far enough
away that the wing runner will not trip over it. Many will call out
loud to the pilot, "TAIL DOLLY REMOVED!" and then hold it up for the
pilot to see and wait form an acknowledgement. Yes, this is at the
risk of interrupting the pilots checklist. Others simply place it
where it can be seen and they tell the wing runner, then quietly
remove it from the launch line (side of the runway) after the glider
is gone.

I've seen a Janus C fly and land safely with a tail dolly. I also like
the "fall away" design of the Grob 104. Listening to the Grob 104 tail
dolly slide down a paved runway gets your attention.

Condolences to the family with this tragic event.
T

We talk about how fatigue and dehydration can lead to a reduction in the pilots ability to think and fly the glider....I can assure you that chasing rope and hooking up gliders in the hot sun all day long without proper attention to hydration can have the same effect. This tragedy was the last flight of the day and I can well imagine that everyone was tired and not at their best. Not making an excuse here, just suggesting that we all pay attention to this debilitating situation.

While it is always the responsibility of the PIC to insure that his glider is airworthy, the ground crew is the last line of insurance against such mistakes. On many occasions I have spent a few hours launching gliders in the hot Florida sun and then flew myself. I found myself sucking most of the water from my Camelbak before I took off and was amazed at how thirsty I had become. When you feel thirsty, your level of dehydration is already excessive potentially reducing your attention to critical details. Clubs and commercial operations need to pay attention to such potentialities and take actions to insure that no one pushes things too far.

I had the opportunity to learn first hand how lack of nutrition and hydration can affect ones performance under controlled situations in Air Force Combat Crew Survival Schools. We can go a long time without food but H20 is critical.

Condolences to the family.

Walt

Tail dollies and wing wheels, once removed are placed to the side,
forward of the wing tip where the pilot can see it, but far enough
away that the wing runner will not trip over it.

YES! This is the way to do it. When the pilot gets to "Dolly" on the
checklist, a quick look to the side confirms it is off. It helps if
your dolly is a unique color not to be confused with another.

At 02:30 20 June 2012, Bill D wrote:
Tail dollies and wing wheels, once removed are placed to the side,
forward of the wing tip where the pilot can see it, but far enough
away that the wing runner will not trip over it.

YES! This is the way to do it. When the pilot gets to "Dolly" on the
checklist, a quick look to the side confirms it is off. It helps if
your dolly is a unique color not to be confused with another.

I'm new to gliding so excuse my ignorance, but shouldnt the D(olly) check
be done before you get into the plane or is there no standard on the ABCD
checks?
Rather than checking that the Dolly (or someone elses that looks like
yours) is on the grass to the side it would make more sense that you
confirm, regardless of whos Dolly it is... it isnt attached to the back of
your plane?

On Jun 19, 8:25*pm, Ben Brand wrote:
At 02:30 20 June 2012, Bill D wrote: Tail dollies and wing wheels, once removed are placed to the side,
forward of the wing tip where the pilot can see it, but far enough
away that the wing runner will not trip over it.

YES! *This is the way to do it. *When the pilot gets to "Dolly" on the
checklist, a quick look to the side confirms it is off. *It helps if
your dolly is a unique color not to be confused with another.

I'm new to gliding so excuse my ignorance, but shouldnt the D(olly) check
be done before you get into the plane or is there no standard on the ABCD
checks?
Rather than checking that the Dolly (or someone elses that looks like
yours) is on the grass to the side it would make more sense that you
confirm, regardless of whos Dolly it is... it isnt attached to the back of
your plane?

Some locations.. to save time on an active shared runway.. shared with
powered aircraft. If there are enough people for ground handling, the
pilot will get in and strap in before being pushed to the runway..
leave the tail dolly off for easier ground movement.
So the dolly may or may not be removed before the pilot gets strapped
in.

T

It has not been mentioned (yet), but did the Lark have a CG hook, or a
nose hook?
Things can get out of hand quickly with a CG hook if attention is
diverted.




On Jun 20, 10:17*am, T wrote:
On Jun 19, 8:25*pm, Ben Brand wrote:

At 02:30 20 June 2012, Bill D wrote: Tail dollies and wing wheels, once removed are placed to the side,
forward of the wing tip where the pilot can see it, but far enough
away that the wing runner will not trip over it.

YES! *This is the way to do it. *When the pilot gets to "Dolly" on the
checklist, a quick look to the side confirms it is off. *It helps if
your dolly is a unique color not to be confused with another.

I'm new to gliding so excuse my ignorance, but shouldnt the D(olly) check
be done before you get into the plane or is there no standard on the ABCD
checks?
Rather than checking that the Dolly (or someone elses that looks like
yours) is on the grass to the side it would make more sense that you
confirm, regardless of whos Dolly it is... it isnt attached to the back of
your plane?

Some locations.. to save time on an active shared runway.. shared with
powered aircraft. If there are enough people for ground handling, the
pilot will get in and strap in before being pushed to the runway..
leave the tail dolly off for easier ground movement.
So the dolly may or may not be removed before the pilot gets strapped
in.

T

On Jun 19, 9:25*pm, Ben Brand wrote:
At 02:30 20 June 2012, Bill D wrote: Tail dollies and wing wheels, once removed are placed to the side,
forward of the wing tip where the pilot can see it, but far enough
away that the wing runner will not trip over it.

YES! *This is the way to do it. *When the pilot gets to "Dolly" on the
checklist, a quick look to the side confirms it is off. *It helps if
your dolly is a unique color not to be confused with another.

I'm new to gliding so excuse my ignorance, but shouldnt the D(olly) check
be done before you get into the plane or is there no standard on the ABCD
checks?
Rather than checking that the Dolly (or someone elses that looks like
yours) is on the grass to the side it would make more sense that you
confirm, regardless of whos Dolly it is... it isnt attached to the back of
your plane?

Many times a glider with pilot in the cockpit must to be pushed onto
the runway to avoid blocking the runway any longer than necessary.
This means the dolly must be left on until the glider is in position
for takeoff then be removed by a crew person. I much prefer this
method since I have generous time to strap in, get comfortable and
prepare the cockpit for takeoff without being rushed but I do need to
see the dolly on the ground.

On 6/19/2012 9:25 PM, Ben Brand wrote:
At 02:30 20 June 2012, Bill D wrote:
Tail dollies and wing wheels, once removed are placed to the side,
forward of the wing tip where the pilot can see it, but far enough
away that the wing runner will not trip over it.

YES! This is the way to do it. When the pilot gets to "Dolly" on the
checklist, a quick look to the side confirms it is off. It helps if
your dolly is a unique color not to be confused with another.

I'm new to gliding so excuse my ignorance, but shouldnt the D(olly) check
be done before you get into the plane or is there no standard on the ABCD
checks?
Rather than checking that the Dolly (or someone elses that looks like
yours) is on the grass to the side it would make more sense that you
confirm, regardless of whos Dolly it is... it isnt attached to the back of
your plane?


Ben,

Excellent question.

Since others have already noted situations - and hence operations - vary
depending on lots of things (e.g. runway[s] layout[s], airfield traffic,
available help, etc., this seems a good place to encourage you to visit other
glider operations every excuse you get. It's fun and you'll learn lots.

You'll definitely see lots of variations on 'things.'

Don't assume different ways of skinning cats are equally good! Keep asking,
"Why?" until your rational sense understands the answers...some of which may
surprise you, and not in good ways. (F'r'example "We've always done it this
way," may be accurate - and simultaneously promote procedurally-based accidents.)

Bob W.