Beechcraft made in China

Carolyn Peters wrote:
Airbus builds aircraft in China and will soon do so in the US. Has
certification been an impediment?

Not so far, but you missed the point and Airbus isn't a Chinese company.

On 7/13/2012 3:34 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
Airbus builds aircraft in China and will soon do so in the US. Has
certification been an impediment?

Not so far, but you missed the point and Airbus isn't a Chinese company.


The point is manufacturing aircraft in China.

You claimed, "Given the way aircraft are certified, that isn't very
likely unless they recertify all the existing aircraft, which would be
very stupid and the Chinese are not stupid."

Please elaborate what certification standards you are talking about and
why producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in America would
be different than producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in
China.

Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 3:34 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
Airbus builds aircraft in China and will soon do so in the US. Has
certification been an impediment?

Not so far, but you missed the point and Airbus isn't a Chinese company.


The point is manufacturing aircraft in China.

No, the point was a rebuttal to "...there won't be anything American
about Beech except the name..".

You claimed, "Given the way aircraft are certified, that isn't very
likely unless they recertify all the existing aircraft, which would be
very stupid and the Chinese are not stupid."

Please elaborate what certification standards you are talking about and
why producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in America would
be different than producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in
China.

OK, I'll elaborate a bit.

Unless the Chinese start building all the bits and pieces that make up
the existing airplanes and get those bits and pieces FAA approved, and
get the aircraft paperwork amended to use all those Chinese bits and
pieces, existing aircraft are going to be pretty much exactly the same
as they are now.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...0 6946-1.html

They will still be "American" airplanes build by a company with corporate
headquarters in China.

Since the bit and pieces market is a low volume niche market, and the Chinese
generally don't have much interest in low volume niche markets, it is
unlikely that new designs will use anything other than the suppliers
used now, which are largely American.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

You also failed to read or didn't understand my last sentence, so I'll
repeat it.

Beech is no more going to be "Chinese" than Budweiser, Michelob, and
Corona Extra have become Belgian-Brazilian.

On 7/13/2012 8:29 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 3:34 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
Airbus builds aircraft in China and will soon do so in the US. Has
certification been an impediment?

Not so far, but you missed the point and Airbus isn't a Chinese company.


The point is manufacturing aircraft in China.

No, the point was a rebuttal to "...there won't be anything American
about Beech except the name..".

You claimed, "Given the way aircraft are certified, that isn't very
likely unless they recertify all the existing aircraft, which would be
very stupid and the Chinese are not stupid."

Please elaborate what certification standards you are talking about and
why producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in America would
be different than producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in
China.

OK, I'll elaborate a bit.

Unless the Chinese start building all the bits and pieces that make up
the existing airplanes and get those bits and pieces FAA approved, and
get the aircraft paperwork amended to use all those Chinese bits and
pieces, existing aircraft are going to be pretty much exactly the same
as they are now.

They (new owners) presumably will own the type certificates. As long as
the parts are built according to their certification requirements, they
will be just fine. Likewise, Airbus can (is) building aircraft in
China. Sure they will be assembling structures that are built in Europe
(at the moment) but they can also build parts where they please.


Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...0 6946-1.html

They will still be "American" airplanes build by a company with corporate
headquarters in China.

Since the bit and pieces market is a low volume niche market, and the Chinese
generally don't have much interest in low volume niche markets, it is
unlikely that new designs will use anything other than the suppliers
used now, which are largely American.

The point is that the new owner can start making money selling Wichita
built airplanes now, even if it probably won't be much money on the
Beechcraft side, save the King Air. But you can bet that the owners
will be learning manufacturing techniques, designs, what it took to
certify the airplane etc. which is infinitely more valuable than selling
Barons. It is a very long term decision.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

Maybe, maybe not. It's too early to tell what will happen. I doubt
even the new owners have finalized their 5,10, year etc. plans.

You also failed to read or didn't understand my last sentence, so I'll
repeat it.

That assertion is incorrect.

Beech is no more going to be "Chinese" than Budweiser, Michelob, and
Corona Extra have become Belgian-Brazilian.

Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 8:29 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 3:34 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
Airbus builds aircraft in China and will soon do so in the US. Has
certification been an impediment?

Not so far, but you missed the point and Airbus isn't a Chinese company.


The point is manufacturing aircraft in China.

No, the point was a rebuttal to "...there won't be anything American
about Beech except the name..".

You claimed, "Given the way aircraft are certified, that isn't very
likely unless they recertify all the existing aircraft, which would be
very stupid and the Chinese are not stupid."

Please elaborate what certification standards you are talking about and
why producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in America would
be different than producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in
China.

OK, I'll elaborate a bit.

Unless the Chinese start building all the bits and pieces that make up
the existing airplanes and get those bits and pieces FAA approved, and
get the aircraft paperwork amended to use all those Chinese bits and
pieces, existing aircraft are going to be pretty much exactly the same
as they are now.

They (new owners) presumably will own the type certificates. As long as
the parts are built according to their certification requirements, they
will be just fine.

You do realize you have said the same thing I did in different words.


Likewise, Airbus can (is) building aircraft in
China. Sure they will be assembling structures that are built in Europe
(at the moment) but they can also build parts where they please.

Yes, their parts to their original specs; location of manufacture is of
little notice to the FAA, but who and how is.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...0 6946-1.html

They will still be "American" airplanes build by a company with corporate
headquarters in China.

Since the bit and pieces market is a low volume niche market, and the Chinese
generally don't have much interest in low volume niche markets, it is
unlikely that new designs will use anything other than the suppliers
used now, which are largely American.

The point is that the new owner can start making money selling Wichita
built airplanes now, even if it probably won't be much money on the
Beechcraft side, save the King Air.

I never said otherwise and in fact that is essentially what I did say.

But you can bet that the owners
will be learning manufacturing techniques, designs, what it took to
certify the airplane etc. which is infinitely more valuable than selling
Barons. It is a very long term decision.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

Maybe, maybe not. It's too early to tell what will happen. I doubt
even the new owners have finalized their 5,10, year etc. plans.

You also failed to read or didn't understand my last sentence, so I'll
repeat it.

That assertion is incorrect.

How, exactly?

Please elaborate how Beech aircraft are going to be Chinese and how to
tell the difference between a Chinese Beech and an American Beech.

Beech is no more going to be "Chinese" than Budweiser, Michelob, and
Corona Extra have become Belgian-Brazilian.

On 7/17/2012 9:18 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 8:29 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 3:34 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
Airbus builds aircraft in China and will soon do so in the US. Has
certification been an impediment?

Not so far, but you missed the point and Airbus isn't a Chinese company.


The point is manufacturing aircraft in China.

No, the point was a rebuttal to "...there won't be anything American
about Beech except the name..".

You claimed, "Given the way aircraft are certified, that isn't very
likely unless they recertify all the existing aircraft, which would be
very stupid and the Chinese are not stupid."

Please elaborate what certification standards you are talking about and
why producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in America would
be different than producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in
China.

OK, I'll elaborate a bit.

Unless the Chinese start building all the bits and pieces that make up
the existing airplanes and get those bits and pieces FAA approved, and
get the aircraft paperwork amended to use all those Chinese bits and
pieces, existing aircraft are going to be pretty much exactly the same
as they are now.

They (new owners) presumably will own the type certificates. As long as
the parts are built according to their certification requirements, they
will be just fine.

You do realize you have said the same thing I did in different words.

If you agree, that is great. If not, I don't mind too much.


Likewise, Airbus can (is) building aircraft in
China. Sure they will be assembling structures that are built in Europe
(at the moment) but they can also build parts where they please.

Yes, their parts to their original specs; location of manufacture is of
little notice to the FAA, but who and how is.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...0 6946-1.html

They will still be "American" airplanes build by a company with corporate
headquarters in China.

Since the bit and pieces market is a low volume niche market, and the Chinese
generally don't have much interest in low volume niche markets, it is
unlikely that new designs will use anything other than the suppliers
used now, which are largely American.

The point is that the new owner can start making money selling Wichita
built airplanes now, even if it probably won't be much money on the
Beechcraft side, save the King Air.

I never said otherwise and in fact that is essentially what I did say.

Perfect.


But you can bet that the owners
will be learning manufacturing techniques, designs, what it took to
certify the airplane etc. which is infinitely more valuable than selling
Barons. It is a very long term decision.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

Maybe, maybe not. It's too early to tell what will happen. I doubt
even the new owners have finalized their 5,10, year etc. plans.






You also failed to read or didn't understand my last sentence, so I'll
repeat it.

That assertion is incorrect.

How, exactly?

It is a false dichotomy--and both of your statements are incorrect.

Please elaborate how Beech aircraft are going to be Chinese and how to
tell the difference between a Chinese Beech and an American Beech.

Well there are at least two possible cases--Chinese Beechcraft built in
the US, and (perhaps someday) Chinese Beechcraft built in China.

For the latter, you would tell the difference by the same way that you
determine if a Toyata sedan is assembled in America or in Japan, by
looking at the point of origin. Strangely, by some government
definitions, a Toyota assembled in Alabama is a "foreign," while a
Chrysler assembled in Ontario is "domestic."

But the fact remains, Beechcraft is a Chinese company as of the sale
date (assuming it goes through). I believe Cirrus Design (Cirrus
Aircraft) already is.

Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/17/2012 9:18 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 8:29 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
On 7/13/2012 3:34 PM, wrote:
Carolyn Peters wrote:
Airbus builds aircraft in China and will soon do so in the US. Has
certification been an impediment?

Not so far, but you missed the point and Airbus isn't a Chinese company.


The point is manufacturing aircraft in China.

No, the point was a rebuttal to "...there won't be anything American
about Beech except the name..".

You claimed, "Given the way aircraft are certified, that isn't very
likely unless they recertify all the existing aircraft, which would be
very stupid and the Chinese are not stupid."

Please elaborate what certification standards you are talking about and
why producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in America would
be different than producing Beechcraft/Hawkers by a Chinese company in
China.

OK, I'll elaborate a bit.

Unless the Chinese start building all the bits and pieces that make up
the existing airplanes and get those bits and pieces FAA approved, and
get the aircraft paperwork amended to use all those Chinese bits and
pieces, existing aircraft are going to be pretty much exactly the same
as they are now.

They (new owners) presumably will own the type certificates. As long as
the parts are built according to their certification requirements, they
will be just fine.

You do realize you have said the same thing I did in different words.

If you agree, that is great. If not, I don't mind too much.

I guess you don't agree realize it, either that or you have to have the
last word.

Likewise, Airbus can (is) building aircraft in
China. Sure they will be assembling structures that are built in Europe
(at the moment) but they can also build parts where they please.

Yes, their parts to their original specs; location of manufacture is of
little notice to the FAA, but who and how is.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...0 6946-1.html

They will still be "American" airplanes build by a company with corporate
headquarters in China.

Since the bit and pieces market is a low volume niche market, and the Chinese
generally don't have much interest in low volume niche markets, it is
unlikely that new designs will use anything other than the suppliers
used now, which are largely American.

The point is that the new owner can start making money selling Wichita
built airplanes now, even if it probably won't be much money on the
Beechcraft side, save the King Air.

I never said otherwise and in fact that is essentially what I did say.

Perfect.

Perfect what?

That you now understand that I never said otherwise or that in fact that is
essentially what I did say, or that you have to have the last word?

will be learning manufacturing techniques, designs, what it took to
certify the airplane etc. which is infinitely more valuable than selling
Barons. It is a very long term decision.

Also, while parts of the manufacturing may go to China, not all of it
is going to China according to the news.

Maybe, maybe not. It's too early to tell what will happen. I doubt
even the new owners have finalized their 5,10, year etc. plans.






You also failed to read or didn't understand my last sentence, so I'll
repeat it.

That assertion is incorrect.

How, exactly?

It is a false dichotomy--and both of your statements are incorrect.

Please elaborate how Beech aircraft are going to be Chinese and how to
tell the difference between a Chinese Beech and an American Beech.

Well there are at least two possible cases--Chinese Beechcraft built in
the US, and (perhaps someday) Chinese Beechcraft built in China.

For the latter, you would tell the difference by the same way that you
determine if a Toyata sedan is assembled in America or in Japan, by
looking at the point of origin. Strangely, by some government
definitions, a Toyota assembled in Alabama is a "foreign," while a
Chrysler assembled in Ontario is "domestic."

But the fact remains, Beechcraft is a Chinese company as of the sale
date (assuming it goes through). I believe Cirrus Design (Cirrus
Aircraft) already is.

You didn't address how Budweiser is now Belgian-Brazilian.

That's OK as I've come to realize you have limited grasp of colloquial
speech.