WGC2012 Uvalde Scoring

On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 18:31:17 UTC-5, Wojciech Scigala wrote:
Użytkownik Ron Gleason napisał:



The discussion so far has no identified the REAL problem. I encourage you to download the flight, define the task and have all flight parameters defined and figure out the serious penalty, which is in fact a zero for the day, because it is not the first time this pilot has done this infraction during the competition, including practice days.



yes I know the answer but you serious RAS folks should be able to figure this out on your own.

"I know but I won't tell" does not help to build safety culture. I'm

watching the log (downloaded from Soaringspot) and all I can see is a

"zoomie" at 15:24:06. Can't tell if there was a near-miss without

watching all files simultaneously.



I also can't find any sporting flaw which would zero the day.



--

WojtuÅ›

There was an airspace violation. Annex A states these penalties are cumulative. 2nd occurrence for this pilot.

Shame on RAS pilots for not figuring this out

Ron

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:08:13 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 18:31:17 UTC-5, Wojciech Scigala wrote:

Użytkownik Ron Gleason napisał:







The discussion so far has no identified the REAL problem. I encourage you to download the flight, define the task and have all flight parameters defined and figure out the serious penalty, which is in fact a zero for the day, because it is not the first time this pilot has done this infraction during the competition, including practice days.







yes I know the answer but you serious RAS folks should be able to figure this out on your own.



"I know but I won't tell" does not help to build safety culture. I'm



watching the log (downloaded from Soaringspot) and all I can see is a



"zoomie" at 15:24:06. Can't tell if there was a near-miss without



watching all files simultaneously.







I also can't find any sporting flaw which would zero the day.







--



WojtuÅ›



There was an airspace violation. Annex A states these penalties are cumulative. 2nd occurrence for this pilot.



Shame on RAS pilots for not figuring this out



Ron

I am lost, if something happened at 15:24:06 with RB I am missing what it was. No airspace there to bust, just MOAs.

Darryl

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:36:04 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:08:13 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 18:31:17 UTC-5, Wojciech Scigala wrote:



Użytkownik Ron Gleason napisał:















The discussion so far has no identified the REAL problem. I encourage you to download the flight, define the task and have all flight parameters defined and figure out the serious penalty, which is in fact a zero for the day, because it is not the first time this pilot has done this infraction during the competition, including practice days.















yes I know the answer but you serious RAS folks should be able to figure this out on your own.







"I know but I won't tell" does not help to build safety culture. I'm







watching the log (downloaded from Soaringspot) and all I can see is a







"zoomie" at 15:24:06. Can't tell if there was a near-miss without







watching all files simultaneously.















I also can't find any sporting flaw which would zero the day.















--







WojtuÅ›







There was an airspace violation. Annex A states these penalties are cumulative. 2nd occurrence for this pilot.







Shame on RAS pilots for not figuring this out







Ron



I am lost, if something happened at 15:24:06 with RB I am missing what it was. No airspace there to bust, just MOAs.



Darryl

the contest is using an airspace file that is available from the turnpoint exchange. part of the MOA is prohibited airspace during the week and the pilot in question clipped the corner of it between circle #1 and circle #2.

I am lost, if something happened at 15:24:06 with RB I am missing what it was. No airspace there to bust, just MOAs.



Darryl

I thought that too except I found this interesting about open class day 8 task: "About the open class task:
After 180 km. the pilots enter the cylinder of Toledo. The CENTER of this cylinder is a forbidden airspace are. Pilots were warned to keep an eye on that.The next leg is 79 km. and then back over 112 km.
370 km. [min.299km. max 447 km] and time 2.30"

JP

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:20:02 PM UTC-5, Jp Stewart wrote:
I am lost, if something happened at 15:24:06 with RB I am missing what it was. No airspace there to bust, just MOAs.







Darryl



I thought that too except I found this interesting about open class day 8 task: "About the open class task:

After 180 km. the pilots enter the cylinder of Toledo. The CENTER of this cylinder is a forbidden airspace are. Pilots were warned to keep an eye on that.The next leg is 79 km. and then back over 112 km.

370 km. [min.299km. max 447 km] and time 2.30"



JP

It was actually Laredo, and 18 meter had a similar task last week where the circle was really a donut, except that Laredo is on the Mexican border so the donut is really about a half donut.

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:23:39 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:20:02 PM UTC-5, Jp Stewart wrote:

I am lost, if something happened at 15:24:06 with RB I am missing what it was. No airspace there to bust, just MOAs.















Darryl







I thought that too except I found this interesting about open class day 8 task: "About the open class task:



After 180 km. the pilots enter the cylinder of Toledo. The CENTER of this cylinder is a forbidden airspace are. Pilots were warned to keep an eye on that.The next leg is 79 km. and then back over 112 km.



370 km. [min.299km. max 447 km] and time 2.30"







JP



It was actually Laredo, and 18 meter had a similar task last week where the circle was really a donut, except that Laredo is on the Mexican border so the donut is really about a half donut.


This is all clear as mud.

It was Laredo what? He did not get close to the LOREDO CLASS D. You mean the CRYSTAL MOA centered on Laredo?

What exact time (nearest second) CDST did the violation occur and in what exact named airspace volume (proper FAA name please)? The score sheet says 15:24:06 (presumably CDST). But nothing is occurring exactly at that time. Around 15:19:46 CDST the glider climbs into the LAUGHLIN 2 MOA briefly (base of which is 7,001' MSL, but is just an MOA and therefore not an airspace violation per-se). Around 15:25:34 the glider passes from under LAUGHLIN 2 MOA to under LAUGLIN 3 MOA, around 16:00:12 the glider climbs though 6,000' into LAUGLIN 3 MOA. These are all just MOAs was there a NOTAM/TFR out modifying these or was additional contest airspace restrictions that are not in the airspace files or not FAA NOTAMed? it would really help to make that info available publicly.

See it would just be easir to give a nice precise explanatory answer instead of playing guessing games. Even better if the scorer (yes I know he's damn busy) had made clear what the penalty was and when it actually occurred.

Darryl

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:18:13 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:23:39 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:20:02 PM UTC-5, Jp Stewart wrote:



I am lost, if something happened at 15:24:06 with RB I am missing what it was. No airspace there to bust, just MOAs.































Darryl















I thought that too except I found this interesting about open class day 8 task: "About the open class task:







After 180 km. the pilots enter the cylinder of Toledo. The CENTER of this cylinder is a forbidden airspace are. Pilots were warned to keep an eye on that.The next leg is 79 km. and then back over 112 km.







370 km. [min.299km. max 447 km] and time 2.30"















JP







It was actually Laredo, and 18 meter had a similar task last week where the circle was really a donut, except that Laredo is on the Mexican border so the donut is really about a half donut.





This is all clear as mud.



It was Laredo what? He did not get close to the LOREDO CLASS D. You mean the CRYSTAL MOA centered on Laredo?



What exact time (nearest second) CDST did the violation occur and in what exact named airspace volume (proper FAA name please)? The score sheet says 15:24:06 (presumably CDST). But nothing is occurring exactly at that time. Around 15:19:46 CDST the glider climbs into the LAUGHLIN 2 MOA briefly (base of which is 7,001' MSL, but is just an MOA and therefore not an airspace violation per-se). Around 15:25:34 the glider passes from under LAUGHLIN 2 MOA to under LAUGLIN 3 MOA, around 16:00:12 the glider climbs though 6,000' into LAUGLIN 3 MOA. These are all just MOAs was there a NOTAM/TFR out modifying these or was additional contest airspace restrictions that are not in the airspace files or not FAA NOTAMed? it would really help to make that info available publicly.



See it would just be easir to give a nice precise explanatory answer instead of playing guessing games. Even better if the scorer (yes I know he's damn busy) had made clear what the penalty was and when it actually occurred..



Darryl

OK with my airspace set to the correct M-F ones, not the weekend one, doh. I now see that around 15:24:02 CDST the glider clips the corner of the WGC-MOA-2 airspace claiming to be prohibited in the M-F airspace file. I'm not sure if that actually maps to a prohibited/NOTAMed FAA airspace or more I suspect is a prohibition the CD called.

Thanks

Darryl

On 8/14/2012 11:18 PM, Darryl Ramm wrote:


This is all clear as mud.

It was Laredo what? He did not get close to the LOREDO CLASS D. You mean the CRYSTAL MOA centered on Laredo?

What exact time (nearest second) CDST did the violation occur and in what exact named airspace volume (proper FAA name please)? The score sheet says 15:24:06 (presumably CDST). But nothing is occurring exactly at that time. Around 15:19:46 CDST the glider climbs into the LAUGHLIN 2 MOA briefly (base of which is 7,001' MSL, but is just an MOA and therefore not an airspace violation per-se). Around 15:25:34 the glider passes from under LAUGHLIN 2 MOA to under LAUGLIN 3 MOA, around 16:00:12 the glider climbs though 6,000' into LAUGLIN 3 MOA. These are all just MOAs was there a NOTAM/TFR out modifying these or was additional contest airspace restrictions that are not in the airspace files or not FAA NOTAMed? it would really help to make that info available publicly.

See it would just be easir to give a nice precise explanatory answer instead of playing guessing games. Even better if the scorer (yes I know he's damn busy) had made clear what the penalty was and when it actually occurred.

Darryl

Its not an FAA airspace violation. Its WGC contest specific. One of the
really active MOAs is prohibited to contest gliders on week days during
the contest. We stay out of their low altitude MOAs and they stay above
us in their other MOAs. An agreement worked out before the contest to
minimize chances of disaster.

ZL

If this has been an Airspace infringement the description in the scoring of
"Hazardous Maneuvre" is rather unfair on the pilot and misleading the public
at large.