Allow me to share today's activities

First, Bob Urban posts his "free speech" rant...

Bla bla bla...
In case you haven't noticed, I've never even
remotely hinted about how you or anyone else
here should practice FREE SPEECH. Please
allow me the same freedom. It is my right as well
as yours and protected by the US Constitution.

and then he follows it with a hypocritical ultimatum that directly
contradicts the lofty precepts he just invoked...

Once again, Holger...
Get your head right or **** off.

Obviously, "free speech" is fine and dandy in RAH as long as such
speech doesn't criticize poor behavior. In Urban's twisted little
world, it is perfectly OK for him to tell others to "get your head
right or **** off" -- which is strangely reminiscent of an Orwellian
Ministry Of Truth edict -- but it is not OK for others to tell him to
do the same or to even appeal for better behavior from all. Very
hypocritical indeed.

Reasonable people understand that while "free speech" includes a
limited right to publicly mouth-off with juvenile vitriol, it also
includes a limited right to publicly chide others for poor behavior
and a right to ask for better behavior from all. Only a fool would
characterize the latter as an attack upon free speech. Holger was
correct in his assessment, this newsgroup is much the poorer because
of the juvenile antics of a handful of socially maladjusted posters.

BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
hypocrisy.

Free Speech Watch wrote:

First, Bob Urban posts his "free speech" rant...

Bla bla bla...
In case you haven't noticed, I've never even
remotely hinted about how you or anyone else
here should practice FREE SPEECH. Please
allow me the same freedom. It is my right as well
as yours and protected by the US Constitution.

and then he follows it with a hypocritical ultimatum that directly
contradicts the lofty precepts he just invoked...

Once again, Holger...
Get your head right or **** off.

Obviously, "free speech" is fine and dandy in RAH as long as such
speech doesn't criticize poor behavior. In Urban's twisted little
world, it is perfectly OK for him to tell others to "get your head
right or **** off" -- which is strangely reminiscent of an Orwellian
Ministry Of Truth edict -- but it is not OK for others to tell him to
do the same or to even appeal for better behavior from all. Very
hypocritical indeed.

Reasonable people understand that while "free speech" includes a
limited right to publicly mouth-off with juvenile vitriol, it also
includes a limited right to publicly chide others for poor behavior
and a right to ask for better behavior from all. Only a fool would
characterize the latter as an attack upon free speech. Holger was
correct in his assessment, this newsgroup is much the poorer because
of the juvenile antics of a handful of socially maladjusted posters.

--
Bruce A. Frank

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:53:05 GMT, "Bruce A. Frank"
wrote:

BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
hypocrisy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why is it your ilk is COMPELLED to explain me,
define me and interpret whatever I have to say?
Don't you believe others can think for themselves?
'Do gooders' like you are the biggest threat and danger
to a free society there ever was.

Your compulsions, frothings and paranoia are not limited
to RAH. Seems you are a man hell bent on a mission,
tainting my personal mailbox with your brand of hype
and fears. Chill out, Bruce. The only enemy I see is
within yourself. Take a chill pill and maybe a vacation.
If that is not do-able....

Carry on with your dastardly distortions, shadings and defamations
of me. You are speaking to your choir boys and few else. I can't
imagine anyone who takes your point of view seriously, ever sees
my posts. Surely, I've been long filtered out. Do likewise and save
yourself a lot of angst, hearburn and elevated blood pressure.

AFAIK.....
Your expertise is welding.
Mine is more than five decades of flying.
It is no accident that I don't challenge your welding.
Yet, you have no problems butting heads with me
in almost every area you have little experience in.
Ignorance, like yours, obviously is no accident.
AND, I believe that makes you a serious flying accident
going somewhere to happen, Bruce. Get your project
in the air and prove me wrong. Until then, you are just
another loudmouth cut from cloth similar to jaun's.....
just slicker and smoooother around the edges.

Barnyard BOb -- 50 years of successful flight

"Bruce A. Frank" wrote in message
...
BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
hypocrisy.

Bruce A. Frank

I gotta think you are off base on this call. Never have I heard BOb say
that you should not post your opinion. He is very set, and perhaps stubborn
in his views, and sometimes gets a bit obnoxious and overbearing, and tells
people that their views and opinions are full of sh*t, but he never has
tried to censor anyone.

Add to that, the fact that he is just plain wrong about auto conversions,
........., g
--
Jim in NC

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:24:20 -0500, Free Speech Watch
wrote:


characterize the latter as an attack upon free speech. Holger was
correct in his assessment, this newsgroup is much the poorer because
of the juvenile antics of a handful of socially maladjusted posters.


seeing how to handle such maladjustment is a valuable lesson for some
who may otherwise encounter it in the general community without
adequate preparation.

in imposition of wills situations I still think that the sagest advise
came from W.C.Fields the comedian. "never argue with a fool."

Stealth (there is good in everyone ...sometimes) Pilot

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:20:57 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

seeing how to handle such maladjustment is a valuable lesson for some
who may otherwise encounter it in the general community without adequate
preparation.

in imposition of wills situations I still think that the sagest advise
came from W.C.Fields the comedian. "never argue with a fool."

Education for how to deal with fools in real life? Is this what we need
RAH for?

We've seen the accident rates Ron Wanttaja posted. Whatever the causes
are, building and flying experimental planes is taking a high toll on our
group. You may say that is Darwin at work, purging us from the idiots. But
there are almost always families involved, and it makes a bad impression
on those who have little interest in keeping the skies open for idiots.
And it makes finding adequate insurance a challenge.

We all know how the information exchange is essential to keep us from
being the next idiot. RAH is the main international non-type specific
experimental aircraft discussion forum.

Unfortunately, we don't use it to its potential because the prevailing
attitude here has been driving a good number away and keeps others mute.
It would do our group good to invite as many as possible to our
discussions. The ones who can give advise and the ones who desperately
need it. Latter may ruin our next insurance quote otherwise.

- Holger

PS: I don't have anything against stronger language in the mids of a
heated discussion. A while ago I defended BOb's position and attitude in
the auto conversion controversy in the Bearhawk group (didn't do it for
you, BOb, but to argue for the position and motivation). Sometimes it is
just a matter of temperament. But that wealth of bashing here just to
bash, with no connection to any technical discussion, is just pathetic
barking behind the save fence of the anonymous Internet.

"Holger Stephan" wrote:

PS: I don't have anything against stronger language in the mids of a
heated discussion. A while ago I defended BOb's position and attitude in
the auto conversion controversy in the Bearhawk group (didn't do it for
you, BOb, but to argue for the position and motivation). Sometimes it is
just a matter of temperament. But that wealth of bashing here just to
bash, with no connection to any technical discussion, is just pathetic
barking behind the save fence.....


"Bruce A. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:

BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
hypocrisy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Say it again, Holger....
say it again.


Barnyard BOb --
The more people I meet,
the more I love my dog
and George Carlin humor.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:52:23 +0000, - Barnyard BOb - wrote:
...
"Bruce A. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:
...

I think you hurt and disappointed Bruce who says he regarded you as a
friend for many years. Bruce has never been a barker elsewhere (AFAIK).
Can't you two just meet or pick up the phone and talk it out?

- Holger

"Bruce A. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:
...

I think you hurt and disappointed Bruce who says he regarded you as a
friend for many years. Bruce has never been a barker elsewhere (AFAIK).
Can't you two just meet or pick up the phone and talk it out?

- Holger
++++++++++++++++++++++

Hurt is a two way street.

Perhaps you have not absorbed some of his most cutting public remarks.
This has been brewing for some time. I now realize what he thinks of
me and so does the rest of the world.... and vice versa. Most know
the difference between friends and loose lipped acquaintances
airing dirty laundry on the net.

I appreciate your attempt at peacemaker, tho.
Thanks,

Robert R. Urban aka Barnyard BOb aka Unka BOb

"Holger Stephan" opined:

PS: I don't have anything against stronger language in the mids of a
heated discussion. A while ago I defended BOb's position and attitude in
the auto conversion controversy in the Bearhawk group (didn't do it for
you, BOb, but to argue for the position and motivation). Sometimes it is
just a matter of temperament.

But that wealth of bashing here just to
bash, with no connection to any technical discussion, is just pathetic
barking behind the save fence.....


"Kill the messenger B. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:

BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
hypocrisy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Say it again, Holger....
say it again.


Barnyard BOb --
The more people I meet,
the more I love my dog
and George Carlin humor.