Best performing Vario?

On Friday, September 28, 2012 2:22:46 AM UTC-7, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
we are talking about http://www.winpilot.com/images4/PRO_1.gif right? actually the xcsoar representation is quite similar, only that the climb values are not drawn in a 3D way, but using a polar diagram. The arrow that WinPilot shows is also available in XCSoar, just not as emphasized and it will get larger once the suggestion to recenter gets stronger. could you elaborate on what exactly you think is better in the WinPilot representation?

It is the arrow that makes it accurate and easy to use- more visual. It simply gets shorter as one gets closer to the core and when it just becomes a dot you are at the core.
I'm very impressed with XCSoar but I'm not aware of the arrow like WinPilot or even SYM ?? XCSoar's Thermal Assist works good but when I use it one has to look -head down-rather than just to "refer" to the arrow at a glance keeping heads out of the cockpit. My 5 C worth. 6PK

you can see the current implementation of XCSoar at http://bugs.xcsoar.org/raw-attachmen...51197415_n.jpg

if you look close, you notice a blue line originating from the center of the thermal assistant. the other end of the line marks the point of the proposed thermal core and shows you the direction in which you would need to recenter. from what you've mentioned in the previous posting I understand that this indicator needs to be larger and possibly in an arrow-like form, correct?!

there is also an alternative implementation proposed that looks like this: http://bugs.xcsoar.org/raw-attachmen...lassistant.png
feel free to comment on that one too. we are always open to suggestions and constructive criticism.

On Sep 28, 12:08*pm, Tobias Bieniek
wrote:
you can see the current implementation of XCSoar athttp://bugs.xcsoar.org/raw-attachment/ticket/2301/552152_459984440688...

if you look close, you notice a blue line originating from the center of the thermal assistant. the other end of the line marks the point of the proposed thermal core and shows you the direction in which you would need to recenter. from what you've mentioned in the previous posting I understand that this indicator needs to be larger and possibly in an arrow-like form, correct?!

there is also an alternative implementation proposed that looks like this:http://bugs.xcsoar.org/raw-attachmen...iedthermalassi...
feel free to comment on that one too. we are always open to suggestions and constructive criticism.

I think the current solution is better. Just make the arrow like in
WinPilot and the aircraft somewhat bigger or replace with the triangle
like in the proposed solution. The new solution is not as good as the
current one, gives less granular information.

What happened to a good pair of eyes, a sensitive butt and any of the above varios?

On Friday, September 28, 2012 6:25:17 PM UTC-7, Wheaton wrote:
What happened to a good pair of eyes, a sensitive butt and any of the above varios?

They are still needed. But what is wrong with progress?!

On 9/28/2012 6:25 PM, Wheaton wrote:
What happened to a good pair of eyes, a sensitive butt and any of the above varios?

One good reason is fiberglass construction, modern airfoils, and heavy
gliders. Fly slowly at 1-26 or K-6 speeds, and even a pellet vario can
work well. Blast through the thermal at 90-100 knots, full of water ...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

One good reason is fiberglass construction, modern airfoils, and heavy
gliders. Fly slowly at 1-26 or K-6 speeds, and even a pellet vario can
work well. Blast through the thermal at 90-100 knots, full of water ...
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to


So, the question becomes, what software is best for what conditions? This post assumes that the varios input to the software shows true lift without gusts etc.

The PC SeeYou stats showed that on 200 km of distance yesterday, with overdeveloped cloudbases as low as 2500 ft AGL, average climbs were as low as 1 knot or zero, getting blown home on wind. Most "circles" showed lift and 4 knot gusts at opposite sides of the circle, and sink everywhere else. Moving to one direction to the other resulted in the same thing with a different set of short term lift bubbles. That's trying both slow 45 degree banks, or back and forth sniffing in the bubbly area that had more lift than sink. When you're that low you have to do what you have to do.

Other people's flights on the OLC that day showed pretty mush the same conditions/results, but I didn't see anyone doing the "sniff around" method.

Sometimes you just have to fly around a bubbly area that has more lift than sink, and a 1 minute average lift option on a very weak bubble day would help. That's about the size of a "sniff around" area, which isn't a thermal at all even if there is more lift than sink. "Last thermal" stats on software I've used/seen so far stops working as soon as you go straight for any length of time.

So, what I'm saying is that the software development and discussion seems to be optimized for classic Texas lift silos on nice days, not for overdeveloped low weak days when you'r relying on the circulation from latent heat of liquidization just under cloudbase.

The suggested XCSOAR thermal assistant screen http://bugs.xcsoar.org/raw-attachmen...lassistant.png would work well for these conditions if it would show a one mile sniffing area with bubble clusters, even if you're flying back and forth rather than circling. The outer ring would still work for the classic thermal situation.

So, I would suggest that Tobias' proposal works for more situations than Andrzej's objection, since not all of us can assume classic thermal silos of lift on non-classic lift days.

At 16:28 29 September 2012, AGL wrote:

One good reason is fiberglass construction, modern airfoils, and
heavy=20
gliders. Fly slowly at 1-26 or K-6 speeds, and even a pellet vario
can=20
work well. Blast through the thermal at 90-100 knots, full of water ...
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to=20
=20

So, the question becomes, what software is best for what conditions?
This
=
post assumes that the varios input to the software shows true lift
without
=
gusts etc.

The PC SeeYou stats showed that on 200 km of distance yesterday, with
overd=
eveloped cloudbases as low as 2500 ft AGL, average climbs were as low as
1
=
knot or zero, getting blown home on wind. Most "circles" showed lift and
4=
knot gusts at opposite sides of the circle, and sink everywhere else.
Mov=
ing to one direction to the other resulted in the same thing with a
differe=
nt set of short term lift bubbles. That's trying both slow 45 degree
banks=
, or back and forth sniffing in the bubbly area that had more lift than
sin=
k. When you're that low you have to do what you have to do.

Other people's flights on the OLC that day showed pretty mush the same
cond=
itions/results, but I didn't see anyone doing the "sniff around" method.

Sometimes you just have to fly around a bubbly area that has more lift
than=
sink, and a 1 minute average lift option on a very weak bubble day would
h=
elp. That's about the size of a "sniff around" area, which isn't a
thermal=
at all even if there is more lift than sink. "Last thermal" stats on
soft=
ware I've used/seen so far stops working as soon as you go straight for
any=
length of time.

So, what I'm saying is that the software development and discussion seems
t=
o be optimized for classic Texas lift silos on nice days, not for
overdevel=
oped low weak days when you'r relying on the circulation from latent heat
o=
f liquidization just under cloudbase.

The suggested XCSOAR thermal assistant screen
http://bugs.xcsoar.org/raw-at=
tachment/ticket/2148/modifiedthermalassistant.png would work well for
these=
conditions if it would show a one mile sniffing area with bubble
clusters,=
even if you're flying back and forth rather than circling. The outer
ring=
would still work for the classic thermal situation.

So, I would suggest that Tobias' proposal works for more situations than
An=
drzej's objection, since not all of us can assume classic thermal silos
of
=
lift on non-classic lift days.


Try an LX8000 with track set to display vario (colour coding). Great for
sniffing around as you describe, and thermals that shift as you climb.

Mike