FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

If a better showing at world gliding comps is the reason for the lobbying for a change of the US sport/club class rules, one has to wonder why those leading the charge have not addressed the matter of team selection rules.

One rule prohibits pilots like Doug Jacobs and John Cochrane, to name just two, who, having flown in a FAI WGC, are barred from representing the US.

The latest dumbing down of the US Club team rules is the restriction in gliders that can be flown. Is there any doubt that DJ, this year's Sport class winner, would be our best choice? He is ineligible both because he's flown (and won) a WGC and his ship is a percent or two out of the handicap range (read: he has to fly that much faster to win).

The Sports class handicap system the US uses selects the best pilot regardless of all the whining from the crowd that would like to see the winner selected from a vastly reduced field ala the mercifully euthanized PW-5 fiasco..

As to the petition being brandished about, my reaction is to request all who appreciate the excellent rule making process the US competition soaring community enjoys contact their regional directors and ask them to give it all the consideration it deserves; i.e, send it to the circular file.

Karl Striedieck

I see no reason why a former FAI team member can not fly and represent the USA in the Worlds, if he or she qualifies in a Club Class Nationals. I do see the reason why handicapping should be kept tight and within comparable limits set by the IGC.

Mike


On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:50:56 PM UTC-7, wrote:
If a better showing at world gliding comps is the reason for the lobbying for a change of the US sport/club class rules, one has to wonder why those leading the charge have not addressed the matter of team selection rules.



One rule prohibits pilots like Doug Jacobs and John Cochrane, to name just two, who, having flown in a FAI WGC, are barred from representing the US.



The latest dumbing down of the US Club team rules is the restriction in gliders that can be flown. Is there any doubt that DJ, this year's Sport class winner, would be our best choice? He is ineligible both because he's flown (and won) a WGC and his ship is a percent or two out of the handicap range (read: he has to fly that much faster to win).



The Sports class handicap system the US uses selects the best pilot regardless of all the whining from the crowd that would like to see the winner selected from a vastly reduced field ala the mercifully euthanized PW-5 fiasco.



As to the petition being brandished about, my reaction is to request all who appreciate the excellent rule making process the US competition soaring community enjoys contact their regional directors and ask them to give it all the consideration it deserves; i.e, send it to the circular file.



Karl Striedieck

I was not aware of that limitation on Worlds Qualification. That is, if what you are saying is true, a really bad rule. I agree 100% that the "best" pilots should be sent to the World Championships. That results in dynasty (same pilot every year ala Kawa), but that is what being a "Champion" is all about. Clearly Doug is an outstanding pilot. No debate there...

That said, definitively stating that DJ or KS or HA or R are the "best" under our US Sports Class rule system (assuming the goal is sending the best pilot to the Club Class World Championships) is a very, very interesting discussion. Until a couple weeks ago, US Sports Class rules included the entire range of all sailplanes built to date (126 - ASW 25+) under a handicap system which does not take into account the average speed of that particular task day. In my view this a massive, glaring flaw that will almost certainly favor certain gliders on certain days (or at certain contest locations).. Furthermore, If less than 12 gliders participate in the new "Club" class at the 2013 Sports/Club? Nationals, we will still default back to these same US Sports Class rules.

In sailing, for example, performance handicaps are driven by a defined variable called "average wind strength."

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Portsmouth_Yardstick.htm

The reason for this method is that on strong wind days certain sailboat designs have greatly improved performance relative to other boats (ability to plane downwind, etc). On light air days the opposite, etc, etc. Before this factor was accounted for in the handicapping, all competitors basically knew who was going to win based on the weather forecast. Participation slowly dropped as confidence in the handicap fell off in locations that were predominantly windy (east coast) or light air (great lakes). In response, a wind speed variable was built into the handicap system to ensure fairer scoring in each individual race. The handicap changes slightly for each boat thru the wind range.

The same problem exists in sailplane racing but still only one handicap applies regardless of the day having an average speed of 35 mph or 90 mph! Depending on the contest location, gliders of certain performance ranges will have significant advantages over many others. If you have a Libelle, you are looking for certain conditions. If you have an ASW-27, your hoping for another condition. The good news is that soaring has a far more objective variable to utilize for handicap tuning, average task speed of the top pilots!

In my opinion, trying to handicap a 126 vs. an ASW-25 with one handicap is next to impossible. The gliders are flying thru massively different area's and conditions on each racing day. Mix in MAT tasking, no AT's and you have something that is highly subjective, susceptible to luck and vastly different from the FAI rules of the World Championship. It is just to broad to fairly manage the dynamics of racing a very low performance glider vs. a very high performance glider. So, splitting into narrower handicap ranges is a great improvement! Having average speed dependent variable handicapping would be another...

Back to the best pilot. At the 2012 Sports Class Nationals (Parowan, UT) DJ flew a glider well above the FAI Club Class handicap range (Ventus 2cx-15) in a location which produced very high average speeds. In a location like Parowan, a high performance glider spends considerable time within its ideal polar range relative to older "FAI club level" gliders (running speeds of 100 mph+). DJ won the 2012 Sports Class Nationals by 105 points over 2nd (ASW-20), and 142 over 3rd (Duo Discus). An impressive feat although it all came down to the final flying day. Regardless, daily winning speeds were incredibly fast for nearly the entire week:

Day 1: 61 mph - Day 2: 91 mph - Day 3: 92 mph - Day 4: 85 mph - Day 5: 85 mph - Day 6: 85 mph - Day 7: 88 mph

If we are talking about who is the "best" US pilot to fly in the Club Class World Championships I fear that there is still tremendous room for debate. That is the problem.

The closer we get to the rules of the Club Class World Championship (or any other World Championship), the better prepared the pilot we send as the US representative will be. And the more satisfied the other pilots will be that the best pilot has been selected.

Sean,

I think you bring up good points. I think part of the concern is valid for all classes, not just Sports. The new rules will help to split out the club class gliders into their own group for tasking. I was on the task committee at Parown and we always focused on the PW5 to set the task. Would have been nice to be able to set speed tasks for the narrower club class range..

I flew a Standard Jantar 2 in 2010 and paid the price on windy days with big holes. As we saw this year the smart pilots brought higher performance ships to get club class team points. Current system requires multiple ships if you are a serious club class pilot for the conditions expected. A strong 15m for west and a good Standard class ship on the east coast.

I think we need rules forcing more speed tasks in all nationals. TAT are interesting, but AST's teach a set of skills the top pilots need as well of international flying.

TT

Thanks Tim!

The Rules Committee are a wonderful group of very bright and friendly people who want nothing more than the best for our sport. We all have great respect for them personally and as pilots. I commend them for the efforts, passion and idea's! Rules can be a challenge, especially when they are changed. Our US rules are also used in part as a mechanism to govern other essential and important area's of the sport such as safety, fun factors and turning decline into growth. There are compromises that must be made. Sailplane "racing" remains the key focus of the racing rules. I too have sat on many boards both professionally and in sport. Open, fluid communication and friendly debate is the path to win/win outcomes. Reaching out aggressively and listening to as many people (customers and competitors) as possible has always been the key (for me) in getting thru heated debates or challenges.

With that, there are (already) 25 signatures on the US Club Class FAI petition requesting that the new US Club Class adopt more FAI "like" rules. This petition has only been open for 6 days. The 25 signers include a number of top pilots within the former "US sports class" who ACTUALLY OWN CLUB CLASS SHIPS. The signers include several past US World Team pilots. They also include the two top US "Club Class" pilots who will be representing the USA in a month at the World Championships in Argentina. It appears, at minimum, that a significant number of very important pilots (ranging from highly experienced to less, young and old...) appear to want a US Club Class which is fairly different than what has been proposed by the US RC. That is odd. What is even more odd is that nobody appears to have reached out to them.

Shouldn't the US pilots who own club level gliders - who have chosen to fly club gliders in sports class - who own them today and flown them proudly for many years - who are very happy with club gliders and not interested (or perhaps able or interested in affording) in pursuing ownership of more expensive 15/18/Open gliders - and who want (a bit) more of an (FAI) "racing" experience - be heard regarding the rules of a new class of Club Class gliders in the USA? Are they being heard? Were they even asked? If not, why not?

How was a decision to create a new US "Club Class" arrived at if this many key pilots appear to want FAI "like" tasking and gliders? My understanding is that none of the petition signers were asked or contacted by the rules committee and asked for input. The poll sent out by the US rules committee did not ask this question directly or present it as an option. Is the "polling strategy" utilized by the SSA rules committee asking the right questions? Is it, perhaps, too ambiguous or open to interpretation?

It appears that the interests of those who own and fly club level gliders may NOT been heard. This Club Class FAI petition and the people who have signed it are asking, nicely but LOUDLY, for a US Club Class which is much, much "closer" to the established Club Class flown everywhere else on the planet. Initially, that appears NOT to be an option which is on the table. Why not?

My understanding is that the rules committee will be making a final recommendation to the SSA Board of Directors in February (23rd). Perhaps the signers of this petition (especially owners of actual club class gliders) should also make recommendations to the SSA Board? Ultimately, I would love to see an outcome here that makes this important US Club group thrilled and excited vs. feeling ignored. And ignored is the feeling right now unfortunately. I hope a meaningful dialogue begins before this winter meeting occurs..

In the end it is all about the Club Class glider owners! The Sports Class can and should remain unchanged (minus the club ships interested in the FAI like rules). Any club glider that does not want to fly in the US Club Class with more FAI like rules (for whatever reason) remains in sports!

WIN - WIN!!!!!, nobody is left behind, EVERYBODY HAS A GREAT CHOICE!

Sincerely,

Sean
F2

On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 11:08:48 AM UTC-5, Sean F (F2) wrote:
I was not aware of that limitation on Worlds Qualification. That is, if what you are saying is true, a really bad rule. I agree 100% that the "best" pilots should be sent to the World Championships. That results in dynasty (same pilot every year ala Kawa), but that is what being a "Champion" is all about. Clearly Doug is an outstanding pilot. No debate there... That said, definitively stating that DJ or KS or HA or R are the "best" under our US Sports Class rule system (assuming the goal is sending the best pilot to the Club Class World Championships) is a very, very interesting discussion.

There was a limitation for a number of years that kept many previous US Team members from being on the Club class team. That, and the limitation of gliders that could be used in team selection, was intended to give the "little guys" one class where they could get a leg up and get world championship experience.
The hope was to jump start the team from the bottom up. If someone thinks they have a chance( even if it is and illusion, given the other good pilots in the class), maybe they will give it a try.
This exercise in social engineering did not succeed, and was eliminated. Personally I was dissapointed that only a couple people, RW being one, took the opportunity presented.
A little background FWIW
UH

USA Club Class WGC pilots are no longer restricted. Anyone can qualify, even former world champs. This was announced about two years ago.

Rick Walters
USTC

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:50:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
If a better showing at world gliding comps is the reason for the lobbying for a change of the US sport/club class rules, one has to wonder why those leading the charge have not addressed the matter of team selection rules.



One rule prohibits pilots like Doug Jacobs and John Cochrane, to name just two, who, having flown in a FAI WGC, are barred from representing the US.



The latest dumbing down of the US Club team rules is the restriction in gliders that can be flown. Is there any doubt that DJ, this year's Sport class winner, would be our best choice? He is ineligible both because he's flown (and won) a WGC and his ship is a percent or two out of the handicap range (read: he has to fly that much faster to win).



The Sports class handicap system the US uses selects the best pilot regardless of all the whining from the crowd that would like to see the winner selected from a vastly reduced field ala the mercifully euthanized PW-5 fiasco.



As to the petition being brandished about, my reaction is to request all who appreciate the excellent rule making process the US competition soaring community enjoys contact their regional directors and ask them to give it all the consideration it deserves; i.e, send it to the circular file.



Karl Striedieck

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:33:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
USA Club Class WGC pilots are no longer restricted. Anyone can qualify, even former world champs. This was announced about two years ago. Rick Walters USTC On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:50:56 PM UTC-8, wrote: If a better showing at world gliding comps is the reason for the lobbying for a change of the US sport/club class rules, one has to wonder why those leading the charge have not addressed the matter of team selection rules. One rule prohibits pilots like Doug Jacobs and John Cochrane, to name just two, who, having flown in a FAI WGC, are barred from representing the US. The latest dumbing down of the US Club team rules is the restriction in gliders that can be flown. Is there any doubt that DJ, this year's Sport class winner, would be our best choice? He is ineligible both because he's flown (and won) a WGC and his ship is a percent or two out of the handicap range (read: he has to fly that much faster to win). The Sports class handicap system the US uses selects the best pilot regardless of all the whining from the crowd that would like to see the winner selected from a vastly reduced field ala the mercifully euthanized PW-5 fiasco. As to the petition being brandished about, my reaction is to request all who appreciate the excellent rule making process the US competition soaring community enjoys contact their regional directors and ask them to give it all the consideration it deserves; i.e, send it to the circular file. Karl Striedieck

US team web site needs an update to show the latest version reflecting this change.
KS lack of current info is understandable.
UH