U.S. glider operations fuel prices

On Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:31:23 PM UTC+1, Karen wrote:
Get with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the 1930's. The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport. Karen Henderson.

Karen, the US has been doing it since the 1930s, too. And not all German clubs use a winch - I visited a nice soaring club near Aachen a week ago (they were flying everything from a DG-1000 to an open cockpit oldie) that has too short runways to consider a winch - the price of land would never make it economical. We have almost the same problem at our club here in St Louis - we own a big grass strip, perfect for aerotowing, but at 2700' just a bit too short for "get away" winching - and we have roads at both ends preventing extending much more.

It's a nice option, though. Fun, too! If you can do it, go for it!

But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch...

Kirk
66

On Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:58:59 AM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:31:23 PM UTC+1, Karen wrote: Get with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the 1930's. The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport. Karen Henderson. Karen, the US has been doing it since the 1930s, too. And not all German clubs use a winch - I visited a nice soaring club near Aachen a week ago (they were flying everything from a DG-1000 to an open cockpit oldie) that has too short runways to consider a winch - the price of land would never make it economical. We have almost the same problem at our club here in St Louis - we own a big grass strip, perfect for aerotowing, but at 2700' just a bit too short for "get away" winching - and we have roads at both ends preventing extending much more. It's a nice option, though. Fun, too! If you can do it, go for it! But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch... Kirk 66

Kirk, you may be right - there are a handfull of clubs in Germany which do not use a winch due to space constraints but out of about 900 active clubs reported by the DAeC, that is a negligble number. Tha vast majority uses winching as their main launch method due to cost reasons - mainly due to high fuel cost over there.
But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch...
Oh really?? Drive one lately? ;-)

Uli

On Nov 22, 6:18*am, GM wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:58:59 AM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:31:23 PM UTC+1, Karen wrote: Get with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the 1930's. The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport. Karen Henderson. Karen, the oUS has been doing it since the 1930s, too. And not all German clubs use a winch - I visited a nice soaring club near Aachen a week ago (they were flying everything from a DG-1000 to an open cockpit oldie) that has too short runways to consider a winch - the price of land would never make it economical. We have almost the same problem at our club here in St Louis - we own a big grass strip, perfect for aerotowing, but at 2700' just a bit too short for "get away" winching - and we have roads at both ends preventing extending much more. It's a nice option, though. Fun, too! If you can do it, go for it! But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch... Kirk 66

Kirk, you may be right - there are a handfull of clubs in Germany which do not use a winch due to space constraints but out of about 900 active clubs reported by the DAeC, that is a negligble number. Tha vast majority uses winching as their main launch method due to cost reasons - mainly due to high fuel cost over there. But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch...

Oh really?? Drive one lately? ;-)

Uli

Land costs

We lived on the side of a hill when we bought the winch from Fault
line Flyers in TX. We leased the 13 acres from a farmer in front of
the house. Would lob my spouse into the pattern at lunch in a vintage
2-33 w/nose hook into the pattern when the turkey vultures would
appear. He soared till sunset off an 800 ft vault, land and put his a/
c away by himself. Walk back up to the house in time for dinner.
Pretty bas One other comment about these winch addicts. Living in a
tourist town, we get pilots from the soaring world all over. Unless
they are super high time glider pilots, the Europeans win hands down
every week for working weak and low lift. 757 Capt Ingo Sturhan from
Deutschland "got off" the winch launch half way down the runway and
half way up because he knew he flew through a thermal. Circled to
12,800 ft departed east for AZ and came home 4.5 hrs later. Amazing.

I drove a Pawnee yesterday (10 tows) and it is a LOT more fun than driving a
winch, which I haven't done in over 10 years. From the glider end of the
rope, however, I'd *much* rather be connected to a winch or truck (runway
length permitting, of course).


"GM" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:58:59 AM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:31:23 PM UTC+1, Karen wrote: Get with the
program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the 1930's. The little
UK still does more flights than we do per airport. Karen Henderson. Karen,
the US has been doing it since the 1930s, too. And not all German clubs
use a winch - I visited a nice soaring club near Aachen a week ago (they
were flying everything from a DG-1000 to an open cockpit oldie) that has
too short runways to consider a winch - the price of land would never make
it economical. We have almost the same problem at our club here in St
Louis - we own a big grass strip, perfect for aerotowing, but at 2700'
just a bit too short for "get away" winching - and we have roads at both
ends preventing extending much more. It's a nice option, though. Fun, too!
If you can do it, go for it! But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than
a winch... Kirk 66

Kirk, you may be right - there are a handfull of clubs in Germany which do
not use a winch due to space constraints but out of about 900 active clubs
reported by the DAeC, that is a negligble number. Tha vast majority uses
winching as their main launch method due to cost reasons - mainly due to
high fuel cost over there.
But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch...
Oh really?? Drive one lately? ;-)

Uli

But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch... Oh really?? Drive one lately? ;-) Uli

OK, you got me, Uli - I haven't driven a winch, but have been on the other end several times (mainly in Germany) and I agree it's a lot of fun on the "pulled" end. But you will have to convince me that being at the "pulling" end (even though it must be a fun way to get your friends up in the air) of a winch is more fun than driving a big ole noisy taildragger around the sky!

Cheers!

Kirk
66

On Friday, November 23, 2012 5:38:00 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch... Oh really?? Drive one lately? ;-) Uli OK, you got me, Uli - I haven't driven a winch, but have been on the other end several times (mainly in Germany) and I agree it's a lot of fun on the "pulled" end. But you will have to convince me that being at the "pulling" end (even though it must be a fun way to get your friends up in the air) of a winch is more fun than driving a big ole noisy taildragger around the sky! Cheers! Kirk 66

Hi Kirk

we are having a ton of fun with our home-built winch here at the Carolina Soaring Association. Being in the middle of NASCAR-country, we gave ours a bit of a 'red-neck' touch! See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K26F69HdbmE
or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUL5SSZhWzA
The 'not-so-fun' part of driving a winch is when it continuesly breaks down and one has to constantly tinker with it. Properly engineered and built winches are fun to operate and - like flying the tow-plane or instructing - is a great way to give back to the club.

Safe soaring,

Uli

On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:34:01 PM UTC-7, GM wrote:
On Friday, November 23, 2012 5:38:00 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:

But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch... Oh really?? Drive one lately? ;-) Uli OK, you got me, Uli - I haven't driven a winch, but have been on the other end several times (mainly in Germany) and I agree it's a lot of fun on the "pulled" end. But you will have to convince me that being at the "pulling" end (even though it must be a fun way to get your friends up in the air) of a winch is more fun than driving a big ole noisy taildragger around the sky! Cheers! Kirk 66



Hi Kirk



we are having a ton of fun with our home-built winch here at the Carolina Soaring Association. Being in the middle of NASCAR-country, we gave ours a bit of a 'red-neck' touch! See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K26F69HdbmE

or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUL5SSZhWzA

The 'not-so-fun' part of driving a winch is when it continuesly breaks down and one has to constantly tinker with it. Properly engineered and built winches are fun to operate and - like flying the tow-plane or instructing - is a great way to give back to the club.



Safe soaring,



Uli

I have an appreciation for the high plains of Colorado I would not have otherwise had I not spent a lot of time driving the club winch. The Larks are wonderful. The antelope are okay. The occasional badger is interesting. Then there are the soaring birds. The cougars don't appear in the day time. The occasional escaped llama provides something to chase.

As there can be a couple of wind shears between the ground and 2000agl, it's never dull. Now if more pilots would listen when I tell them to turn left at the top of the launch to catch the thermal, it would be even better. Too many turn right for the house thermal, which isn't there when it's to the left;^)

Frank

But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch...
Kirk

66

This is by far the main, but rarely spoken, reason for objecting to winch launch.

However, it's wrong. I've done a lot of both and I'd much rather be in a nice winch.

On Thursday, November 22, 2012 4:37:45 PM UTC+1, Bill D wrote:

This is by far the main, but rarely spoken, reason for objecting to winch launch.

However, it's wrong. I've done a lot of both and I'd much rather be in a nice winch.

Bill, my comments are in no way meant to infer that I object to winch launching - I really wish our club had room for one, and I think it is the future our sport. We need the "excitement" of winch launching to draw people into our sport, and it sure is a fun way to start a flight. That being said, I also really enjoy flying a Pawnee or a Supercub. So in my perfect world/glider club, we would have both!

Kirk
66

On Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:12:02 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 4:37:45 PM UTC+1, Bill D wrote:



This is by far the main, but rarely spoken, reason for objecting to winch launch.



However, it's wrong. I've done a lot of both and I'd much rather be in a nice winch.



Bill, my comments are in no way meant to infer that I object to winch launching - I really wish our club had room for one, and I think it is the future our sport. We need the "excitement" of winch launching to draw people into our sport, and it sure is a fun way to start a flight. That being said, I also really enjoy flying a Pawnee or a Supercub. So in my perfect world/glider club, we would have both!



Kirk

66

If you enjoy flying the Pawnee so much, you should volunteer to split the tow cost with the glider pilot you're towing.