U.S. glider operations fuel prices

On Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:31:15 PM UTC+1, Bill D wrote:

"If you enjoy flying the Pawnee so much, you should volunteer to split the tow cost with the glider pilot you're towing."

Since I'm a club member, and pay club dues, that's essentially what we do. And the time I spend towing is time I can't spend flying my own glider, or giving rides in club gliders, etc. So it all works out.

It's a bit more complicated when non-glider pilots are used for club tow pilots. Basically they are getting paid in flying time in interesting airplanes. Seems to work, but as our clubs chief tow pilot, I prefer using glider pilots as towpilots.

Back to winches, I've read that British clubs have had good luck with professional winch drivers, getting more consistent launches and less issues with scheduling winch drivers on good soaring days.

Kirk
66

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:03:08 -0800, kirk.stant wrote:

Back to winches, I've read that British clubs have had good luck with
professional winch drivers, getting more consistent launches and less
issues with scheduling winch drivers on good soaring days.

My club has both - club members on weekends and professionals during the
week when almost everybody who is on the field wants to fly. I can't say
I've noticed a huge difference in competence.

Those who've been launched a lot off Skylaunch winches say thats about
the best and that their control system adds a lot of consistency. I've
had one or two launches off them, but not enough to form an opinion. Our
own winches are Supacats and totally dependent on the driver's skill.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:03:09 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:31:15 PM UTC+1, Bill D wrote:



"If you enjoy flying the Pawnee so much, you should volunteer to split the tow cost with the glider pilot you're towing."



Since I'm a club member, and pay club dues, that's essentially what we do. And the time I spend towing is time I can't spend flying my own glider, or giving rides in club gliders, etc. So it all works out.

Kirk

66

Presumably, the glider pilot also pays dues so that's a wash. He also pays for the aero tow which you don't. You should split the tow fee with him since your 'hobby' is flying Pawnees.

If the winch is well designed, there is no need for a professional winch operator. In fact, I think it's dangerous to let someone operate a winch if they're not a pilot. Anyone with the talent to become a pilot can be trained to operate a winch.

Bill, you're missing the point or just messing with us tow pilots. Flying
the Pawnee is not my hobby, it's my contribution to the sport. Some people
mow the grass, some clean the club house, some instruct, some fly the tug.
I'd rather fly the tug than drive the winch since I get the "view from
above" and the challenge of landing the Pawnee in a 15 kt cross wind. On
the other hand, it's a lot easier to climb in/out of a winch, and you don't
get the excitement of having your nose pointed at the ground by some
ham-fisted wannabe.

"Bill D" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:03:09 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:31:15 PM UTC+1, Bill D wrote:



"If you enjoy flying the Pawnee so much, you should volunteer to split
the tow cost with the glider pilot you're towing."



Since I'm a club member, and pay club dues, that's essentially what we
do. And the time I spend towing is time I can't spend flying my own
glider, or giving rides in club gliders, etc. So it all works out.

Kirk

66

Presumably, the glider pilot also pays dues so that's a wash. He also
pays for the aero tow which you don't. You should split the tow fee with
him since your 'hobby' is flying Pawnees.

If the winch is well designed, there is no need for a professional winch
operator. In fact, I think it's dangerous to let someone operate a winch
if they're not a pilot. Anyone with the talent to become a pilot can be
trained to operate a winch.

On Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:49:47 PM UTC-6, Bill D wrote:

Presumably, the glider pilot also pays dues so that's a wash. He also pays for the aero tow which you don't. You should split the tow fee with him since your 'hobby' is flying Pawnees.

No, my "hobby" is flying gliders. I "enjoy" flying towplanes. By your logic, an airline pilot who enjoys flying his 777 should pay his passengers for giving him a job. Interesting concept, but a bit too Marxist for most of us...

I guess I owe the US citizenry a lot of cash for all the years I spent zooming around in various military aircraft!

Back to your argument that it's tow pilots that are preventing the adoption of winches at many US glider clubs - I find that a bit hard to swallow. Tow pilots don't usually run a glider club - especially if they are not also glider pilots. They may not like the idea of being replaced by a motor and some string, but as glider pilots and club members, they can recognize the financial advantages of the winch over a towplane. Our club has a mix of glider/tow pilots, and non-glider towpilots, and If we decided we could no longer afford our towplanes the non-glider pilots would simply continue with their other flying jobs.

Kirk
66

A good many years ago I did a careful analysis of hours flown against
launch costs in the UK. It came ouit that the lowest lauch cost per hour
flown was found at the most expensive all aerotow sites because the soared
more often. Haven't repeated it recently but I'd be surprised if it's
changed.

At 13:58 22 November 2012, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:31:23 PM UTC+1, Karen wrote:
Get with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the
1930's.
=
The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport. Karen
Henders=
on.

Karen, the US has been doing it since the 1930s, too. And not all German
c=
lubs use a winch - I visited a nice soaring club near Aachen a week ago
(th=
ey were flying everything from a DG-1000 to an open cockpit oldie) that
has=
too short runways to consider a winch - the price of land would never
make=
it economical. We have almost the same problem at our club here in St
Lou=
is - we own a big grass strip, perfect for aerotowing, but at 2700' just
a
=
bit too short for "get away" winching - and we have roads at both ends
prev=
enting extending much more.

It's a nice option, though. Fun, too! If you can do it, go for it!

But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch...

Kirk
66