FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

3- Allowing lower performance gliders is important from a practical point of view. The 2-33 scare is just that. But why not let Sparrowhawks and such come play?

UH

A SGS 2-33 is possible but SGS 1-26 is more likely. However, let's use the 2009 Sports Class Nationals as and example. There was an ASW-28 and ASK-14. Both are considered Club Class gliders under the RC proposal. How is a CD going to set a reasonable AT with such a disparity in performance?

Sean Franke (HA)

On Friday, December 7, 2012 8:19:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
3- Allowing lower performance gliders is important from a practical point of view. The 2-33 scare is just that. But why not let Sparrowhawks and such come play? UH A SGS 2-33 is possible but SGS 1-26 is more likely. However, let's use the 2009 Sports Class Nationals as and example. There was an ASW-28 and ASK-14. Both are considered Club Class gliders under the RC proposal. How is a CD going to set a reasonable AT with such a disparity in performance? Sean Franke (HA)

By utilizing the long MAT concept the you refuse to discuss.
Everybody starts pretty much at the same time like AT. They fly the same course, except the low performance gliders skip the last turn so they don't land in a field. It is proven and it works.
Please read what I wrote.
UH

On Friday, December 7, 2012 7:19:37 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, December 7, 2012 8:19:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:

3- Allowing lower performance gliders is important from a practical point of view. The 2-33 scare is just that. But why not let Sparrowhawks and such come play? UH A SGS 2-33 is possible but SGS 1-26 is more likely. However, let's use the 2009 Sports Class Nationals as and example. There was an ASW-28 and ASK-14. Both are considered Club Class gliders under the RC proposal. How is a CD going to set a reasonable AT with such a disparity in performance? Sean Franke (HA)



By utilizing the long MAT concept the you refuse to discuss.

Everybody starts pretty much at the same time like AT. They fly the same course, except the low performance gliders skip the last turn so they don't land in a field. It is proven and it works.

Please read what I wrote.

UH

UH, I understand the concept. However, a MAT is NO substitute for AT. Everyone fly's the SAME course in AT. Slower or lower performance gliders cutting turn points is not flying the same course.

Sean Franke (HA)

On Friday, December 7, 2012 11:10:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, December 7, 2012 7:19:37 PM UTC-8, wrote:

On Friday, December 7, 2012 8:19:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:



3- Allowing lower performance gliders is important from a practical point of view. The 2-33 scare is just that. But why not let Sparrowhawks and such come play? UH A SGS 2-33 is possible but SGS 1-26 is more likely. However, let's use the 2009 Sports Class Nationals as and example. There was an ASW-28 and ASK-14. Both are considered Club Class gliders under the RC proposal. How is a CD going to set a reasonable AT with such a disparity in performance? Sean Franke (HA)







By utilizing the long MAT concept the you refuse to discuss.



Everybody starts pretty much at the same time like AT. They fly the same course, except the low performance gliders skip the last turn so they don't land in a field. It is proven and it works.



Please read what I wrote.



UH



UH, I understand the concept. However, a MAT is NO substitute for AT. Everyone fly's the SAME course in AT. Slower or lower performance gliders cutting turn points is not flying the same course.



Sean Franke (HA)


Let's pick it apart. You and UH are both right on significant points.

Long MAT and AT have significant similarities. They do feel similar (not by any means identical) for guys of roughly equal performance. The fast guys still win.

They also have significant differences. The legs are shorter on a long MAT.. 180 mile long MAT has a bunch of 20 - 30 mile legs. Maybe the first two can be reasonably long on a good day. AT might be two turnpoints. Result is that the fleet tends to stay closer together on the MAT, there's just less room for deviation on a short leg. It feels different too in that you are (usually) going to get farther from home on the AT, see more terrain and you aren't going to be over the same terrain repeatedly, as can often happen in a long MAT. Some of this can be dealt with by determined and creative task setting.

The races get very different if we task such that you have to fly fast until the end of the day to finish the course. Is this what you want to do? It's probably the way to make the Nats a better training & selection tool for WGC. If we do that, the gig becomes a lot more work, a lot more aggravation for the landees and a lot less barbeque and camaraderie at the airport.

Evan Ludeman / T8

42 have signed the petition FAI Rules for the US Club Class Nationals

See: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/

Thank you George

Sean Franke (HA)

I had a look at the SSA Contest results, and I can't tell if mixed rules (US and FAI) were tried at the super regional held in Moriarty last year. If (1) the Club Class FAI petition succeeds, and (2) the contest organizer changes his mind, then Mifflin might be the first mixed rule Nationals contest..

I may have missed it, but I don't believe anyone has asked the pilots flying Sports Class at Mifflin in May 2013 how they'd feel about flying under US rules while another Class at the same contest was flying under FAI rules.

Speaking for myself, I'm not eager to be in such an experiment. In my view there are chances for things to go wrong, and I'd prefer that mixed rules flying be tried somewhere else, without me participating.

-John

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 11:29:22 AM UTC-8, John Carlyle wrote:
I had a look at the SSA Contest results, and I can't tell if mixed rules (US and FAI) were tried at the super regional held in Moriarty last year. If (1) the Club Class FAI petition succeeds, and (2) the contest organizer changes his mind, then Mifflin might be the first mixed rule Nationals contest.



I may have missed it, but I don't believe anyone has asked the pilots flying Sports Class at Mifflin in May 2013 how they'd feel about flying under US rules while another Class at the same contest was flying under FAI rules..



Speaking for myself, I'm not eager to be in such an experiment. In my view there are chances for things to go wrong, and I'd prefer that mixed rules flying be tried somewhere else, without me participating.



-John

I'm curious John, what conflicts do you see with Sports Class? The same start and finish can be used. The difference is a narrower handicap range, only AT and AAT and scoring formula. How does that effect a US rules based Sports Class?

Sean Franke (HA)

BTW John, I appreciate your question. I feel many have misperceptions about FAI and its integration. Some have spun negative image and scare tactics to keep FAI out of the US.
Sean Franke (HA)

U.S. rules in Moriarty last year. We chose the handicaps allowed for Club and Modern classes through a waiver.

Being able to operate with waivers when holding Club/Modern Contests, has been easy, allowing for a lot of flexibility.

Thanks to everyone involved at the SSA, and a some very dedicated volunteers, we have had two successful Club/Modern Super Regionals, with very good participation. In each class the pilots who flew the best were at the top.

Mike

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 12:29:22 PM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
I had a look at the SSA Contest results, and I can't tell if mixed rules (US and FAI) were tried at the super regional held in Moriarty last year. If (1) the Club Class FAI petition succeeds, and (2) the contest organizer changes his mind, then Mifflin might be the first mixed rule Nationals contest.



I may have missed it, but I don't believe anyone has asked the pilots flying Sports Class at Mifflin in May 2013 how they'd feel about flying under US rules while another Class at the same contest was flying under FAI rules..



Speaking for myself, I'm not eager to be in such an experiment. In my view there are chances for things to go wrong, and I'd prefer that mixed rules flying be tried somewhere else, without me participating.



-John