FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

So you are proposing not following IGC rules? 3R

I think Guy Byars statement carries wisdom and direction. "The trick is to preserve the spirit and the simplicity of the FAI rules, but at the same time make them a bit more palatable to US pilots."


This is just hilarious. The petition says IGC rules. Period. Metric
units. IGC club class list. 0.5 kilometer turnpoints with no credit
for distance inside (makes it real fun when a gaggle approaches, all
trying to get exactly one fix in the circle), Start line, no starts
out the top, unlimited altitude or limited altitude with no time limit
-- VNE dives out of the clouds. Mandated AT/TAT percentage forcing
assigned tasks into thunderstorms (Uvalde). IGC speed/distance points
with major strategic implications. Team flying. Ground to pilot
communication allowed; better have a team captain to tell you what's
going on. IGC speed/distance formulas. Occasions when it's better to
land in the field next to the airport than finish. And so on.

Ok, at least there is some coherence and clarity to the proposal. But
now, you want to have the "spirit" of FAI rules. For a National
contest at Miffin. In May.

So who is gong to figure out the "spirit"? Just what rules are we
going to be flying under? You want someone to cut and paste together
two rule books, while consulting you for spiritual advice along the
way? Now there's a practical proposal

John Cochrane

On Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:45:26 AM UTC-8, John Cochrane wrote:


So you are proposing not following IGC rules? 3R



I think Guy Byars statement carries wisdom and direction. "The trick is to preserve the spirit and the simplicity of the FAI rules, but at the same time make them a bit more palatable to US pilots."





This is just hilarious. The petition says IGC rules. Period. Metric

units. IGC club class list. 0.5 kilometer turnpoints with no credit

for distance inside (makes it real fun when a gaggle approaches, all

trying to get exactly one fix in the circle), Start line, no starts

out the top, unlimited altitude or limited altitude with no time limit

-- VNE dives out of the clouds. Mandated AT/TAT percentage forcing

assigned tasks into thunderstorms (Uvalde). IGC speed/distance points

with major strategic implications. Team flying. Ground to pilot

communication allowed; better have a team captain to tell you what's

going on. IGC speed/distance formulas. Occasions when it's better to

land in the field next to the airport than finish. And so on.



Ok, at least there is some coherence and clarity to the proposal. But

now, you want to have the "spirit" of FAI rules. For a National

contest at Miffin. In May.



So who is gong to figure out the "spirit"? Just what rules are we

going to be flying under? You want someone to cut and paste together

two rule books, while consulting you for spiritual advice along the

way? Now there's a practical proposal



John Cochrane

There is nothing hilarious about the RC ignoring hard work from several Club Class super regionals and making a SGS 1-26 a "Club Class" glider.

What we expected was continuation of proven Club Class regional success to the National level. That didn't happen, not even close.

The petition states "The purpose of this petition is to demonstrate the number of US pilots who want formation of the new US Club Class to adopt FAI (IGC) rules, handicaps and tasking philosophy." Philosophy is the key word.

When you read comments from the petition, some desire exact adoption while other prefer a variation. All want an alternative to US Rules format.

No need to readdress the drama rhetoric regarding IGC rules. I've already posted a response.

Sean Franke (HA)

Join the petition at: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/

What we expected was continuation of proven Club Class regional success to the National level. *That didn't happen, not even close.


And this is exactly what you got. The club class regionals were run
under US rules, with US tasking guidelines, and US club class list.
Exactly this concept was moved to nationals.The one difference at
Mifflin will be (horrors) we will allow the 2 or so lower performance
gliders that typically show up to sports to play in club class. For
obvious reasons, which we've gone over endlessly.

Compare what you're asking: a different list of gliders, and a totally
different set of rules. This was not tried at the regional level, not
even close.

We are bringing the concept from regionals to nationals. It's you who
are asking for something totally different and untried.

At the risk of sounding a little ****y, may I suggest that you try
flying an entire national contest, once, under US rules, and then see
if it really is not providing you with enough challenge?

John Cochrane

On Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:31:13 AM UTC-8, John Cochrane wrote:
What we expected was continuation of proven Club Class regional success to the National level. *That didn't happen, not even close.





And this is exactly what you got. The club class regionals were run

under US rules, with US tasking guidelines, and US club class list.

Exactly this concept was moved to nationals.The one difference at

Mifflin will be (horrors) we will allow the 2 or so lower performance

gliders that typically show up to sports to play in club class. For

obvious reasons, which we've gone over endlessly.



Compare what you're asking: a different list of gliders, and a totally

different set of rules. This was not tried at the regional level, not

even close.



We are bringing the concept from regionals to nationals. It's you who

are asking for something totally different and untried.



At the risk of sounding a little ****y, may I suggest that you try

flying an entire national contest, once, under US rules, and then see

if it really is not providing you with enough challenge?



John Cochrane

No, it's not exactly. Not even close.

There were two guiding IGC philosophies at previous Club Class super regionals.

1. Narrow handicap range. Yes, it was based on established US Club Class gliders. BTW, this range is close to IGC. The RC is adding Discus 2, LS8 and SGS 1-26, 2-22.... Explain how this is exact? There will be no limit to the number of lower performance gliders. Traditional Club Class tasking can't be accomplished.

2. Tasking based on AT and AAT only. NO MAT. Club Class super regionals were run to mirror IGC tasking philosophy. Is the RC going to allow MAT in their version of "Club Class"? YES. How is that exact?

So again, we expected continuation of proven Club Class regional success (and guiding philosophies) to the National level. Super regionals accomplished a shift towards IGC format.

Sean Franke (HA)

Greetings from Turks and Caicos!

48 signatures. About 6 with tech diff will be signing shortly as soon as I have time to sort them.

So that's soon to be 50+ who have signed a petition asking the USRC to stop molesting the Club Class which has been asked for by watering it down with a greatly expanded handicap range and tasking philosophy.

I think the RC are truly great great people and I know they have a passion for the rules philosophy they have created. But it is not a failure to simply allow an IGC Club Class to happen and see where it goes. All the US rukes classes remain fully intact! NOBODY is left behind with sports class remaining as is... This is so easy, such a simple decision... Just let go! We will make it huge...

Give US pilots a choice to join the rest of the world in one small class.................

Sean
F2

If you would like to read, consider or even sign our Petition for the US RC to recommend an SSA sanctioned IGC/FAI rules US Club Class at the 2013 Nationals moving forward, please follow this link: http://www.thepetitionsite..com/262/...fb_connected=1

48 other fellow pilots (most proud owners of Club Class ships) have already signed and you can see their signatures and read their comments as well at the link above!

Sincerely!

Sean
F2

In response to comment calling the public petition for a TRUE...US Club Class into question, I must chuckle a bit. Well, actually a lot. Again, great people on the RC I personally respect and enjoy. But on this point roughly 50 US Club Ship owners have considerable discrepancies in opinion. It appears that rather significant communication gaps exist with the US RC. We can and will have disagreements over such matters but remain friends, gentleman and passionate pilots who love the sport together. This petition is about choice. Is choice good? Is providing an option to US pilots good? US rules or IGC?

Our petition is actually VERY SIMPLE. If said pilot wants the option to fly IGC rules (handicap range and taking philosophy), they signed the petition. If they do not, or are not sure, they did not sign. The petition leaves zero room for subjective question design (and omission), interpretation or "analysis...".

50 US pilots have clearly, openly, publicly, proudly voted or the formation of an IGC rules based US Club Class! We (50+ and growing steadily) are very proud of this petition and continue to grow each day as the visibility into this topic grows.

Sean
F2