The new Electric Cessna 172

Dylan Smith wrote:
On 2012-12-31, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
There are still major chemical limitations on energy storage/weight
issues that preclude them from being a viable power source for aircraft
-- and cars.

Well, not for cars - there are already all-electric cars with a 200 mile
range. With it being entirely normal for most households to have two or
more cars, it's entirely practical that one be electric in most instances,
since anything that demands cross-country driving can be done in the
other vehicle.

That is 200 miles on the highway with the windows up and no air conditioning.

This makes them an expensive niche vehicle as is evindenced by their lack
of sales.


But for aircraft, batteries are a long way off from being viable (well,
for aircraft bigger than radio controlled ones - all of my RC aircraft
are electric, including helicopters weighing almost 7kg)

Absent some earth shaking new physics, batteries will never be viable
for a general purpose aircraft; motor gliders maybe, but something
equivelant to a C-172, nope.

In article ,
wrote:

Dylan Smith wrote:
On 2012-12-31, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
There are still major chemical limitations on energy storage/weight
issues that preclude them from being a viable power source for aircraft
-- and cars.

Well, not for cars - there are already all-electric cars with a 200 mile
range. With it being entirely normal for most households to have two or
more cars, it's entirely practical that one be electric in most instances,
since anything that demands cross-country driving can be done in the
other vehicle.

That is 200 miles on the highway with the windows up and no air conditioning.

.... and in daylight and moderate temperatures. As soon as the mercury
drops into the 40s or below (Deg F), their ability to store and deliver
a charge goes into the tank. Add cabin heating, defrost, etc. and it
only gets worse.


This makes them an expensive niche vehicle as is evindenced by their lack
of sales.


But for aircraft, batteries are a long way off from being viable (well,
for aircraft bigger than radio controlled ones - all of my RC aircraft
are electric, including helicopters weighing almost 7kg)

Absent some earth shaking new physics, batteries will never be viable
for a general purpose aircraft; motor gliders maybe, but something
equivelant to a C-172, nope.

For self-launching sailplanes, which don't need a big "fuel tank," --
yes.

On 01/01/13 07:44, wrote:
Dylan Smith wrote:
On 2012-12-31, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
There are still major chemical limitations on energy storage/weight
issues that preclude them from being a viable power source for aircraft
-- and cars.

Well, not for cars - there are already all-electric cars with a 200 mile
range. With it being entirely normal for most households to have two or
more cars, it's entirely practical that one be electric in most instances,
since anything that demands cross-country driving can be done in the
other vehicle.

That is 200 miles on the highway with the windows up and no air conditioning.

And in daylight and preferably no hills

On 2012-12-31, wrote:
Well, not for cars - there are already all-electric cars with a 200 mile
range. With it being entirely normal for most households to have two or
more cars, it's entirely practical that one be electric in most instances,
since anything that demands cross-country driving can be done in the
other vehicle.

That is 200 miles on the highway with the windows up and no air conditioning.

The typical use pattern of a car is driving a few miles twice a day
and then sitting stationary for at least 14 hours in a driveway which
is more than enough hours to charge off a normal power socket. Even
with the windows down and the AC on full blast there's no issue with
range for the typical daily use of a car.

With most households owning two or more cars, the other car can be used
for any cross-country journeys.

Dylan Smith wrote:
On 2012-12-31, wrote:
Well, not for cars - there are already all-electric cars with a 200 mile
range. With it being entirely normal for most households to have two or
more cars, it's entirely practical that one be electric in most instances,
since anything that demands cross-country driving can be done in the
other vehicle.

That is 200 miles on the highway with the windows up and no air conditioning.

The typical use pattern of a car is driving a few miles twice a day
and then sitting stationary for at least 14 hours in a driveway which
is more than enough hours to charge off a normal power socket. Even
with the windows down and the AC on full blast there's no issue with
range for the typical daily use of a car.

That isn't the typical pattern around here unless by "a few miles" you
mean 50 to 100 miles.

Perhaps you can point to a nation wide study that shows some national
average numbers?

With most households owning two or more cars, the other car can be used
for any cross-country journeys.

For most households, the second car is an old car or a utility vehicle
like a pickup.

Most people want to use the new car for trips.

The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling and likely will
not sell until the range goes up and the price comes down considerably.

On 1/2/2013 12:35 PM, wrote:
The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling

Proof?

Vaughn

Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 12:35 PM, wrote:
The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling

Proof?

Vaughn


http://www.sfgate.com/business/artic...al-3954153.php

Electric car sales falling short of goal

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul...icles-20120721

Plug-in hybrid sales soar; all-electric cars stay in low gear

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/01/bu...kers.html?_r=0

Soft Sales Crimp Outlook for Electric Cars

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ells-200-or-so

September Plug-In Electric Car Sales Surge, As Tesla Sells 200 (Or So)

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In...-fall-in-April

Electric-car sales fall in April

Want more?

On 1/2/2013 3:10 PM, wrote:
Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 12:35 PM, wrote:
The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling

Proof?

Yes, but you seem to have ignored these...

Plug-in electric car sales triple in 2012
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...2012-1.4318285

Electric car sales rising steadily
http://www.mysanantonio.com/business...es-4143761.php

Hybrid, Electric Car Sales Projection May Be To Conservative
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=29410

Electric vehicles proving popular
http://www.newsherald.com/news/busin...opular-1.68215

Electric-drive Car Sales Record New High in November
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=29338

Hybrid, EV Sales ‘Up 73%’ in 2012, Mintel Says
http://www.environmentalleader.com/2...2-mintel-says/

Sales of Alternative Fuel Vehicles on the Rise.
Will reach record high in 2012, says Mintel
http://www.cspnet.com/news/fuels/art...-vehicles-rise

Electric Car Sales Hit Another Record. Electric car sales reached a
record in November for the fourth consecutive month
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddwood...nother-record/

Sales of electric cars double as new models come online
http://www.equities.com/news/headlin...cat=industrial

I could continue, but you get the idea.

On 03/01/13 11:51, Vaughn wrote:

I could continue, but you get the idea.

The day that electric cars (not Hybrids) take 50% of the western market
you'll be able to justly crow.
Even then electrics are short range, expensive (to buy and to replace
batteries), inconvenient overpriced toys.

Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 3:10 PM, wrote:
Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 12:35 PM, wrote:
The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling

Proof?

Yes, but you seem to have ignored these...

Plug-in electric car sales triple in 2012
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...2012-1.4318285

Read it closely; most of the sales are hybrids and no numbers are given for
pure electrics.

Electric car sales rising steadily
http://www.mysanantonio.com/business...es-4143761.php

Again, read it closely; the sales of hybrids is increasing rapidly while
the pure electrics are next to nothing and basically flat.

Hybrid, Electric Car Sales Projection May Be To Conservative
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=29410

Electric vehicles proving popular
http://www.newsherald.com/news/busin...opular-1.68215

Doesn't say a thing about sales numbers, just that most people who have
bought an electric car of some sort like them and hybrids outsell electrics.

Electric-drive Car Sales Record New High in November
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=29338

Hybrid, EV Sales ‘Up 73%’ in 2012, Mintel Says
http://www.environmentalleader.com/2...2-mintel-says/

Says the sales of ALL types of electric cars are up and does not break it
down by hybrid versus electric. We allready know hybrid sales are up.

It also forcasts the TOTAL sales of all type might reach a whopping 5%
of the US market by 2017.

Sales of Alternative Fuel Vehicles on the Rise.
Will reach record high in 2012, says Mintel
http://www.cspnet.com/news/fuels/art...-vehicles-rise

This is a duplicate of the last link.


Electric Car Sales Hit Another Record. Electric car sales reached a
record in November for the fourth consecutive month
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddwood...nother-record/

Again lumps hybrids and electrics together.


Sales of electric cars double as new models come online
http://www.equities.com/news/headlin...cat=industrial

Again lumps hybrids and electrics together, but at least admits "electric
cars still account for a marginal proportion of the UK market" and is
about the UK.


I could continue, but you get the idea.

Yeah, you don't bother to actually read any of the links you post.

You just read the headline and make assumptions.

The bottom line is sales of electric cars are trivial and basically flat
while the sales of hybrids are tiny and climbing and MAY make the 2 digit
percentage market in a decade or so.