BD5B

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:34:32 -0700, "Bart D. Hull"
wrote:

Yo Bob,

There was a BD-5J that was used as the "Coors Silver Bullet" and then was used
for shows at Oshkosh, etc. I could see that particular BD-5 as having more than
350 hours on it. I don't know if this particular bird is still flying.

Hmmm.
Come to think of it....
I've seen the Coors Silver Bullet fly.
Maybe it has 350 hours, maybe it doesn't...
given the trailering operation.

After each airshow, the wings were pulled off and it was put in a trailer. Makes
sense as far as having a car and tools at the airshow as well as your plane.

By any stretch of the imagination, the
BD5J is hardly an amateur endeavor and
it's value is mostly as an oddity. As you have noted,
it ain't no poor boy or rich boy cross country machine.

I think a BIG indication of how difficult it is to fly is that a Ex- Blue Angel
was flying it for the demos! There is a gentleman in my EAA chapter that has one
and is rebuilding it after bleeding too much speed and ending up a bit high on
landing. He did mention that he really couldn't see the ground from the almost
fully reclined position that is the pilot seat. His BD-5 uses a Turbomecha
turbine with a PSRU prop reduction for power.

I've been told that the "B" wing is NOT at all difficult to fly.

Keeping a liquid cooled engine running without it spewing it's
contents on the inhabitant is but one of the many frightful engine
reliability challenges. Landing out with tiny wheels and NO
crush room rounds out the rest of a very plague ridden machine.

The reclined position is no big deal for any high performance
sailplane jockey.

The BD5 in the hangar next to me does not recline as much
as my old sailplane. This is a beautiful BD5 that is just waiting to
hurt anybody that dares think its untested Kawasaki watercraft
engine is worth risking life and limb in lieu of a proven engine.

As with all things if it goes hellishly fast it probably doesn't do slow very well.

How fast is hellishly fast?
A prop powered SX 300 can do 300...
and actually GO SOMEWHERE.... RELIABILY.

From what I've read about the "B" wing,
it's pretty much of a pussycat with a nice
stall around 65 mph?

For me, the problem is that no proven cost
effective engine exists for this aircraft, and landing
out dead stick is very risky business since you wear
this little rascal without an inch of room to spare.
None for your feet. None for ass. None for your
rib cage. None for your head... and the engine
sits at the back side of it. Hardly engineered
for human longevity in case of emergency.

Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

A few comments from a BD-5 builder & pilot.

I know of at least two with 300+ hours on them as I've talked with the
owners. One is in Canada with turbo Honda power, the other back east
somewhere with a KFM engine. Two in N. California are at 140 or so. Another,
with a VW engine, had well over 100 as I recall. However, most that have
flown, like mine, have just a few hours on them.

General BD-5 advice:

Difficult and fussy to build. However, kits, parts, and support are
available. NOT a beginner project. Not a practical airplane due to
limitations in size, safety, and reliability.

Easy to build overweight. (the BIG problem with most alternative engines
used in it) Most BDs are from 50 to 250# over the original design empty
weight. Bede says 450 pounds E.W. should be the max. Few have achieved this.
Imagine tossing a couple bags of cement into something as small as a BD-5,
and how that would change the flying qualities!

Original airfoil has hysterisis in stall recovery. You have to reduce angle
of attack well below the stall angle to get the airflow to reattach. Most
BDs being built today have a thicker % section or a L.E. cuff to prevent
this.

No crashworthiness.

Difficult to get most engines to cool properly with the mid-fuselage buried
location. Several early crashes were caused by overheat seizures in
overgross planes. This was exacerbated by a pitchup at power failure that
would put the plane near or in a stall if not corrected by forward stick and
retrimming! . (high thrustline)

A very easy plane to fly! Delightful handling and control harmony. (at a
reasonable weight) Very stable. It can also outmaneuver a hummingbird on
amphetamines. Has a nearly 15/1 glide ratio at 120 mph.

Posters disclaimer! I've had four deadsticks in my 5. I think that I
finally found the problem in the fuel system and corrected it. I am being
careful not to fly again until ground testing convinces me that everything
is fine. The plane flies great, but the silent birdman thing has gotten
really old. One was into a field where I hit an irrigation pipe (hidden in
weeds) and ripped off the gear. Plane has flown several times since that
one.

Jeff Schroeder
N525JS


"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:34:32 -0700, "Bart D. Hull"
wrote:

Yo Bob,

There was a BD-5J that was used as the "Coors Silver Bullet" and then was
used
for shows at Oshkosh, etc. I could see that particular BD-5 as having
more than
350 hours on it. I don't know if this particular bird is still flying.

Hmmm.
Come to think of it....
I've seen the Coors Silver Bullet fly.
Maybe it has 350 hours, maybe it doesn't...
given the trailering operation.

After each airshow, the wings were pulled off and it was put in a
trailer. Makes
sense as far as having a car and tools at the airshow as well as your
plane.

By any stretch of the imagination, the
BD5J is hardly an amateur endeavor and
it's value is mostly as an oddity. As you have noted,
it ain't no poor boy or rich boy cross country machine.

I think a BIG indication of how difficult it is to fly is that a Ex- Blue
Angel
was flying it for the demos! There is a gentleman in my EAA chapter that
has one
and is rebuilding it after bleeding too much speed and ending up a bit
high on
landing. He did mention that he really couldn't see the ground from the
almost
fully reclined position that is the pilot seat. His BD-5 uses a
Turbomecha
turbine with a PSRU prop reduction for power.

I've been told that the "B" wing is NOT at all difficult to fly.

Keeping a liquid cooled engine running without it spewing it's
contents on the inhabitant is but one of the many frightful engine
reliability challenges. Landing out with tiny wheels and NO
crush room rounds out the rest of a very plague ridden machine.

The reclined position is no big deal for any high performance
sailplane jockey.

The BD5 in the hangar next to me does not recline as much
as my old sailplane. This is a beautiful BD5 that is just waiting to
hurt anybody that dares think its untested Kawasaki watercraft
engine is worth risking life and limb in lieu of a proven engine.

As with all things if it goes hellishly fast it probably doesn't do slow
very well.

How fast is hellishly fast?
A prop powered SX 300 can do 300...
and actually GO SOMEWHERE.... RELIABILY.

From what I've read about the "B" wing,
it's pretty much of a pussycat with a nice
stall around 65 mph?

For me, the problem is that no proven cost
effective engine exists for this aircraft, and landing
out dead stick is very risky business since you wear
this little rascal without an inch of room to spare.
None for your feet. None for ass. None for your
rib cage. None for your head... and the engine
sits at the back side of it. Hardly engineered
for human longevity in case of emergency.

Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

"Jeff Schroeder" wrote:

A few comments from a BD-5 builder & pilot.

I know of at least two with 300+ hours on them as I've talked with the
owners. One is in Canada with turbo Honda power, the other back east
somewhere with a KFM engine. Two in N. California are at 140 or so. Another,
with a VW engine, had well over 100 as I recall. However, most that have
flown, like mine, have just a few hours on them.

General BD-5 advice:

Absolutely great stuff snipped only for brevity

A very easy plane to fly! Delightful handling and control harmony. (at a
reasonable weight) Very stable. It can also outmaneuver a hummingbird on
amphetamines. Has a nearly 15/1 glide ratio at 120 mph.

Posters disclaimer! I've had four deadsticks in my 5. I think that I
finally found the problem in the fuel system and corrected it. I am being
careful not to fly again until ground testing convinces me that everything
is fine. The plane flies great, but the silent birdman thing has gotten
really old. One was into a field where I hit an irrigation pipe (hidden in
weeds) and ripped off the gear. Plane has flown several times since that
one.

Jeff Schroeder
N525JS
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kudos, Jeff...
For what gotta' be the most forthright post I've
ever read from a BD5 builder - owner - pilot.
You got big 'balls', my man.
My hat's off to ya'. g

This post is a KEEPER fer me.
Outstanding and a pure delight to read.
[Even if you're pulling my leg.]

You will keep us posted on how things go, right?


Barnyard BOb - over 50 years of successful flight

With all of the invective, misinformation, pie in the sky hope, personal
grudges, and ignorant opinion that has made its way into the BD-5 dialogue
over the years, I've tried to state the facts as I know them, and help
others avoid mistakes. (like choosing to build a 5 in the first place,
rather than something more useful for the labor involved)

This plane, regardless of its faults, will be with us for some time as it
is one of the most facinating , notorious designs ever created. As many of
us have discovered, a rational examination of your abilities and needs has
little to do with the homebuilt design chosen. For example, I mostly fly
locally, but still want a ViperJet, Turbine Legend, or L-39. I ended up with
the 5 because I got the basic Bede incomplete kit for $ 500 from someone
who never started it. I figured it was like a big model, and could be
finished in a year or so. I was bullheaded enough, (and had a lot of shop
experience) to be able to keep going until it was done. I was curious
enough, and fortunate, to research it fully, and make several critical mods
during construction. This plane REQUIRES that the builder thoroughly
understand its history, and the experiences of others over the years, before
doing your own.

For photos of mine, and some experiences testing it, go to the
HomebuiltAirplanes.com site and look under the Completions and Flying
Techniques forum headings.

I'm not sure how big mine are by comparison, but want to keep them just the
same! ;-)

Jeff Schroeder



"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
...


Kudos, Jeff...
For what gotta' be the most forthright post I've
ever read from a BD5 builder - owner - pilot.
You got big 'balls', my man.
My hat's off to ya'. g

This post is a KEEPER fer me.
Outstanding and a pure delight to read.
[Even if you're pulling my leg.]

You will keep us posted on how things go, right?


Barnyard BOb - over 50 years of successful flight

Jeff

Excellent looking bird (and flies to ).Unless you told someone, your
mods still let it look 'classic' and not like some of the ones with
'warts all over them.

How do you cool. Scoop looks small. Do you have a fan on radidtor or
some other method? I see the louvers just ahead of the tail skid but
such a small area wonder how you get enough air out to keep all cool
and exit properly?

Big John


On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 03:43:46 GMT, "Jeff Schroeder"
wrote:

With all of the invective, misinformation, pie in the sky hope, personal
grudges, and ignorant opinion that has made its way into the BD-5 dialogue
over the years, I've tried to state the facts as I know them, and help
others avoid mistakes. (like choosing to build a 5 in the first place,
rather than something more useful for the labor involved)

This plane, regardless of its faults, will be with us for some time as it
is one of the most facinating , notorious designs ever created. As many of
us have discovered, a rational examination of your abilities and needs has
little to do with the homebuilt design chosen. For example, I mostly fly
locally, but still want a ViperJet, Turbine Legend, or L-39. I ended up with
the 5 because I got the basic Bede incomplete kit for $ 500 from someone
who never started it. I figured it was like a big model, and could be
finished in a year or so. I was bullheaded enough, (and had a lot of shop
experience) to be able to keep going until it was done. I was curious
enough, and fortunate, to research it fully, and make several critical mods
during construction. This plane REQUIRES that the builder thoroughly
understand its history, and the experiences of others over the years, before
doing your own.

For photos of mine, and some experiences testing it, go to the
HomebuiltAirplanes.com site and look under the Completions and Flying
Techniques forum headings.

I'm not sure how big mine are by comparison, but want to keep them just the
same! ;-)

Jeff Schroeder



"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
.. .


Kudos, Jeff...
For what gotta' be the most forthright post I've
ever read from a BD5 builder - owner - pilot.
You got big 'balls', my man.
My hat's off to ya'. g

This post is a KEEPER fer me.
Outstanding and a pure delight to read.
[Even if you're pulling my leg.]

You will keep us posted on how things go, right?


Barnyard BOb - over 50 years of successful flight

Mine cools great even on a 90 deg. day. This, however, took a lot of work.
Total air inlet area is 12 sq. in. divided between flush wingroot openings.
Air exits through an adjustable P-51 style outlet under the tail (30 sq.
in.) A standard Rotax radiator in mounted in a plenum behind the seat.
There is a second one (postal truck heater core) mounted horizontally under
the quill shaft in the back of the engine compartment. Both have ground
cooling fans. The airpath diverges from the inlets to the exhaust with
smooth curves and ramps for the air to follow. Cooling airflow can stall
around sharp corners and cause drag and poor flow internally. This is why
many installation of this type don't work well. The louvers, and a small
air outlet on the left side of the engine compartment door allow some air to
flow around the exhaust pipe and muffler and take that heat away from the
rear radiator.

The main external mods visible are a raised stabilator, and making the aft
fuselage trailing edge match the rudder TE. This BD also has a wing LE cuff,
and fuselage stretch.

These little planes are somewhat of an obsession to those of us who should
have some more common sense!

Jeff

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Jeff

Excellent looking bird (and flies to ).Unless you told someone, your
mods still let it look 'classic' and not like some of the ones with
'warts all over them.

How do you cool. Scoop looks small. Do you have a fan on radidtor or
some other method? I see the louvers just ahead of the tail skid but
such a small area wonder how you get enough air out to keep all cool
and exit properly?

Big John


On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 03:43:46 GMT, "Jeff Schroeder"
wrote:

With all of the invective, misinformation, pie in the sky hope, personal
grudges, and ignorant opinion that has made its way into the BD-5
dialogue
over the years, I've tried to state the facts as I know them, and help
others avoid mistakes. (like choosing to build a 5 in the first place,
rather than something more useful for the labor involved)

This plane, regardless of its faults, will be with us for some time as
it
is one of the most facinating , notorious designs ever created. As many
of
us have discovered, a rational examination of your abilities and needs
has
little to do with the homebuilt design chosen. For example, I mostly fly
locally, but still want a ViperJet, Turbine Legend, or L-39. I ended up
with
the 5 because I got the basic Bede incomplete kit for $ 500 from someone
who never started it. I figured it was like a big model, and could be
finished in a year or so. I was bullheaded enough, (and had a lot of
shop
experience) to be able to keep going until it was done. I was curious
enough, and fortunate, to research it fully, and make several critical
mods
during construction. This plane REQUIRES that the builder thoroughly
understand its history, and the experiences of others over the years,
before
doing your own.

For photos of mine, and some experiences testing it, go to the
HomebuiltAirplanes.com site and look under the Completions and Flying
Techniques forum headings.

I'm not sure how big mine are by comparison, but want to keep them just
the
same! ;-)

Jeff Schroeder



"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
.. .


Kudos, Jeff...
For what gotta' be the most forthright post I've
ever read from a BD5 builder - owner - pilot.
You got big 'balls', my man.
My hat's off to ya'. g

This post is a KEEPER fer me.
Outstanding and a pure delight to read.
[Even if you're pulling my leg.]

You will keep us posted on how things go, right?


Barnyard BOb - over 50 years of successful flight

Thanks Jeff

Your comments all make sense and understand what you did.

Someone in a prior post commented about vision, particularly landing,
due to reclined position in the '5. People forget that in the heavy
iron in WWII there wasn't any forward vision on the take off (until
you got tail up) and landing to clear ahead. When we flared and lost
runway at 12 o'clock we transitioned to a quartering side view (I
normally used the left side). Adjusted height as needed looking at R/W
surface and tracked using the edge of the R/W or lines on R/W.
Thousands did this so I'd not think it a unsurmountable problem now in
the '5.

Fly safe. Have fun

Big John


On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:31:10 GMT, "Jeff Schroeder"
wrote:

Mine cools great even on a 90 deg. day. This, however, took a lot of work.
Total air inlet area is 12 sq. in. divided between flush wingroot openings.
Air exits through an adjustable P-51 style outlet under the tail (30 sq.
in.) A standard Rotax radiator in mounted in a plenum behind the seat.
There is a second one (postal truck heater core) mounted horizontally under
the quill shaft in the back of the engine compartment. Both have ground
cooling fans. The airpath diverges from the inlets to the exhaust with
smooth curves and ramps for the air to follow. Cooling airflow can stall
around sharp corners and cause drag and poor flow internally. This is why
many installation of this type don't work well. The louvers, and a small
air outlet on the left side of the engine compartment door allow some air to
flow around the exhaust pipe and muffler and take that heat away from the
rear radiator.

The main external mods visible are a raised stabilator, and making the aft
fuselage trailing edge match the rudder TE. This BD also has a wing LE cuff,
and fuselage stretch.

These little planes are somewhat of an obsession to those of us who should
have some more common sense!

Jeff

"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
Jeff

Excellent looking bird (and flies to ).Unless you told someone, your
mods still let it look 'classic' and not like some of the ones with
'warts all over them.

How do you cool. Scoop looks small. Do you have a fan on radidtor or
some other method? I see the louvers just ahead of the tail skid but
such a small area wonder how you get enough air out to keep all cool
and exit properly?

Big John


On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 03:43:46 GMT, "Jeff Schroeder"
wrote:

With all of the invective, misinformation, pie in the sky hope, personal
grudges, and ignorant opinion that has made its way into the BD-5
dialogue
over the years, I've tried to state the facts as I know them, and help
others avoid mistakes. (like choosing to build a 5 in the first place,
rather than something more useful for the labor involved)

This plane, regardless of its faults, will be with us for some time as
it
is one of the most facinating , notorious designs ever created. As many
of
us have discovered, a rational examination of your abilities and needs
has
little to do with the homebuilt design chosen. For example, I mostly fly
locally, but still want a ViperJet, Turbine Legend, or L-39. I ended up
with
the 5 because I got the basic Bede incomplete kit for $ 500 from someone
who never started it. I figured it was like a big model, and could be
finished in a year or so. I was bullheaded enough, (and had a lot of
shop
experience) to be able to keep going until it was done. I was curious
enough, and fortunate, to research it fully, and make several critical
mods
during construction. This plane REQUIRES that the builder thoroughly
understand its history, and the experiences of others over the years,
before
doing your own.

For photos of mine, and some experiences testing it, go to the
HomebuiltAirplanes.com site and look under the Completions and Flying
Techniques forum headings.

I'm not sure how big mine are by comparison, but want to keep them just
the
same! ;-)

Jeff Schroeder



"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
.. .


Kudos, Jeff...
For what gotta' be the most forthright post I've
ever read from a BD5 builder - owner - pilot.
You got big 'balls', my man.
My hat's off to ya'. g

This post is a KEEPER fer me.
Outstanding and a pure delight to read.
[Even if you're pulling my leg.]

You will keep us posted on how things go, right?


Barnyard BOb - over 50 years of successful flight