Glider Pilot arrested for airspace

Look under 'Signed under Duress'

Was he Imprissoned?
Was there restraint of his Liberty?
Did the police push the paperwork at him?
Where there threats of personal violence?
Where the policemen armed?
Where they standing over him whilst he was seated?

If the answer is 'Yes' to any of the above, I would say he has a very good
case aganst them. (doubly so it was in the UK.)



At 02:55 13 January 2013, Tom Claffey wrote:

Sorry, yesterday's post doubled up?
Tom

PS:Here in Oz you cannot sign away your rights.



01:04 13 January 2013, Tom Claffey wrote:
Get another lawyer and sue the *******s.
At the very least the Sheriff needs to be sacked!





t 13:54 11 January 2013, wrote:
I just read the article. Its pretty scary to know that those charged
with
e=
nforcing the laws can be so ignorant of them. An initial
misunderstanding
i=
s forgivable (I guess)but to be locked up overnight is not. I was a cop
for=
25 years and its unbelievable that someone didn't step up and say
"Its
ob=
vious this guy is not a terrorist. What are we doing here?" I don't
think
=
I'd be as understanding as the glider pilot and I'd certainly wouldn't
agre=
e to not sue, even if its unlikely I'd ever recover anything. Make 'em
swea=
t, at least. I'd definitely want to know who authorized that charges be
fil=
ed and seek a public apology.

I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several other people who were directly involved.

As a practical matter, I strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case, it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi..

Also, before I started flying gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated, observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would know about that.

All local law enforcement would know is that some crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling nearby.

I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of the press.

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:49 AM UTC-5, James Lee wrote:
I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several other people who were directly involved. As a practical matter, I strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case, it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi. Also, before I started flying gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated, observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would know about that. All local law enforcement would know is that some crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling nearby. I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of the press.

Glad to see that the 'good ole'boy system' is well and alive! I am an engineer and if I f'-up in my work and someone suffers damages, losses or - god forbid - gets hurt, my butt is in the sling! As a local trigger-happy cop, you can play Rambo all you want (i.e. commandeering an airport and preparing to shoot down an aircraft, etc.) and get away with not even a slap on the wrist since the local system protects you. Is that the message here?? That is disgusting!
GM

On 1/13/2013 9:35 AM, GM wrote:
On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:49 AM UTC-5, James Lee wrote:
I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several
other people who were directly involved. As a practical matter, I
strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on
overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might
be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a
pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a
minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and
tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case,
it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to
sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi. Also, before I started flying
gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated,
observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know
what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been
warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a
blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions
circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for
glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would
know about that. All local law enforcement would know is that some
crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular
airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling
nearby. I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a
wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education
of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on
a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of
the press.

Glad to see that the 'good ole'boy system' is well and alive! I am an
engineer and if I f'-up in my work and someone suffers damages,
losses or - god forbid - gets hurt, my butt is in the sling! As a
local trigger-happy cop, you can play Rambo all you want (i.e.
commandeering an airport and preparing to shoot down an aircraft,
etc.) and get away with not even a slap on the wrist since the local
system protects you. Is that the message here?? That is disgusting!

As satisfying as retribution might be, James Lee's posting indicates
it's a risky approach. Again, I suggest it's better to make these people
our friends instead of our adversaries, that is why I originally
suggested offering the plant officials and police officers involved free
glider rides, and encourage them to bring their kids or grand kids.

"Good ole' boy system" or not, being part of the "system" by having
these folks understand what we do and the level of threat we present
will prevent a recurrence of this event. It will spread the message of
soaring in a place that obviously needs it, and might even attract a new
member or two as they tell others about the glider rides and how much
they and their kids enjoyed them. The next time a glider is spotted near
the plant, they can turn to the other workers and explain how the pilot
is looking for thermal, instead of calling the cops.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:08:02 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/13/2013 9:35 AM, GM wrote:

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:49 AM UTC-5, James Lee wrote:

I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several

other people who were directly involved. As a practical matter, I

strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on

overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might

be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a

pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a

minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and

tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case,

it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to

sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi. Also, before I started flying

gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated,

observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know

what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been

warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a

blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions

circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for

glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would

know about that. All local law enforcement would know is that some

crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular

airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling

nearby. I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a

wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education

of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on

a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of

the press.



Glad to see that the 'good ole'boy system' is well and alive! I am an

engineer and if I f'-up in my work and someone suffers damages,

losses or - god forbid - gets hurt, my butt is in the sling! As a

local trigger-happy cop, you can play Rambo all you want (i.e.

commandeering an airport and preparing to shoot down an aircraft,

etc.) and get away with not even a slap on the wrist since the local

system protects you. Is that the message here?? That is disgusting!



As satisfying as retribution might be, James Lee's posting indicates

it's a risky approach. Again, I suggest it's better to make these people

our friends instead of our adversaries, that is why I originally

suggested offering the plant officials and police officers involved free

glider rides, and encourage them to bring their kids or grand kids.



"Good ole' boy system" or not, being part of the "system" by having

these folks understand what we do and the level of threat we present

will prevent a recurrence of this event. It will spread the message of

soaring in a place that obviously needs it, and might even attract a new

member or two as they tell others about the glider rides and how much

they and their kids enjoyed them. The next time a glider is spotted near

the plant, they can turn to the other workers and explain how the pilot

is looking for thermal, instead of calling the cops.



--

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to

email me)

I wish you stop bringing this suggestion, if nothing else out of respect to Robin. It is pity if he can't sue and win, but will be even more pity if he will be asked to give a free ride to the policeman who arrested him. I wouldn't blame him if he forget to buckle him and proceed to fly inverted...

Ramy

On 1/13/2013 12:02 PM, Ramy wrote:
On Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:08:02 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:


"Good ole' boy system" or not, being part of the "system" by
having

these folks understand what we do and the level of threat we
present

will prevent a recurrence of this event. It will spread the message
of

soaring in a place that obviously needs it, and might even attract
a new

member or two as they tell others about the glider rides and how
much

they and their kids enjoyed them. The next time a glider is spotted
near

the plant, they can turn to the other workers and explain how the
pilot

is looking for thermal, instead of calling the cops.

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us"
to

email me)

I wish you stop bringing this suggestion, if nothing else out of
respect to Robin. It is pity if he can't sue and win, but will be
even more pity if he will be asked to give a free ride to the
policeman who arrested him. I wouldn't blame him if he forget to
buckle him and proceed to fly inverted...

I believe this matter is too serious to leave to the people that just
want revenge. What I hope for is a change in behavior and attitude, and
I think that is much more likely to happen if they can learn about the
sport and the people in it. But, if Robin wants to contact me, I'd be
happy to listen to him. My email address is ; full
contact info is on the SSA site.

I don't think anyone should ask Robin to give rides to these people.
That can be done by any competent pilot, but the pilot should be better
than average at "meeting and greeting", so the plant and police people
see our sport in it's best possible light.

Jayne or Frank might be excellent choices to contact the Hartsville
people, or could suggest someone else that could offer the rides in a
compelling fashion. Maybe there is glider pilot from the Hartsville area
that would have some association with the plant/police, and make it
easier for them to accept the idea.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:07:18 PM UTC, Eric Greenwell wrote:


I believe this matter is too serious to leave to the people that just

want revenge. What I hope for is a change in behavior and attitude, and

I think that is much more likely to happen if they can learn about the

sport and the people in it. But, if Robin wants to contact me, I'd be

happy to listen to him. My email address is ; full

contact info is on the SSA site.


Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to

email me)

Nothing(s) improves the receptiveness of large organisations to education as well as justified litigation (or the threat of it), formal complaint or press coverage. Otherwise internal pressures lead them to take the path of least resistance which generally runs right over top of the interests of folks like us. IMHO.

John Galloway