Question about spoilers and pitch stability

I witnessed a PIO by a Grob 103 at our club a couple of weeks ago - it resulted from an attempted landing at too high a speed with first contact by the nosewheel and, as far as I remember, either no or very little applied airbrake.

One key point I learned decades ago is to first deploy airbrakes on downwind, checking visually that they are both deployed. If there is a malfunction or sudden deployment, this give you time and altitude to deal with it. Then, you keep them deployed, modulating them as necessary to control glide slope. The same instructor who taught me this also advised that I keep a bit more speed until on final. This approach seems to work for me and I haven't had a seriously bad landing in thirty years - even on land-outs.

Mike

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 11:12:20 AM UTC-6, Mike the Strike wrote:
I witnessed a PIO by a Grob 103 at our club a couple of weeks ago - it resulted from an attempted landing at too high a speed with first contact by the nosewheel and, as far as I remember, either no or very little applied airbrake.

Mike, could it have been a practice "no-spoiler" approach? I know that the instructors at our club teach this in our Grob-103 - which I personally think is dumb as a sack of hammers.

Again, a legacy of 2-33 training? I remember having to demonstrate no-spoiler, slip to a landing in 2-33s, which are really not a big deal - but in a glass ship - a real, no spoiler to touchdown approach is a serious emergency unless you have a really long runway, and not to be taken lightly. Done incorrectly, you run the risk of being too low on final with no way of making the runway, or way too fast over the threshold with no possibility of going around. Manageable if smart abort criteria are briefed, but can result in a broken glider if not done carefully.

And, it's not even necessary in the PTS, which calls for demonstrating slips, not no-spoiler landings, I believe.

Kirk
66

On 2/2/2013 12:26 PM, kirk.stant wrote:

..... I remember having to demonstrate no-spoiler, slip to a landing in 2-33s, which are really not a big deal - but in a glass ship - a real, no spoiler to touchdown approach is a serious emergency unless you have a really long runway, and not to be taken lightly. Done incorrectly, you run the risk of being too low on final with no way of making the runway, or way too fast over the threshold with no possibility of going around. Manageable if smart abort criteria are briefed, but can result in a broken glider if not done carefully.

And, it's not even necessary in the PTS, which calls for demonstrating slips, not no-spoiler landings, I believe.


http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/...-S-8081-22.pdf

R. TASK: SLIPS TO LANDING
REFERENCES: Soaring Flight Manual, Glider Flight Manual.
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to forward, side,
and turning slips to landing, with and without the use of drag
devices.
2. Recognizes the situation where a slip should be used to land
in a desired area.

I read the FAA PTS requirement as demonstrating the use of slips to steepen the approach, not as requiring landing without using drag devices.

Kirk
66

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 11:32:46 AM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
I read the FAA PTS requirement as demonstrating the use of slips to steepen the approach, not as requiring landing without using drag devices.



Kirk

66

Yep, Most DPE's have figured out a 'slip to landing' is a 2-33 specific maneuver and it's insane to try it in a slippery glass glider. I know of a DG505 which was totaled attempting it.

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:12:20 -0800, Mike the Strike wrote:

I witnessed a PIO by a Grob 103 at our club a couple of weeks ago - it
resulted from an attempted landing at too high a speed with first
contact by the nosewheel and, as far as I remember, either no or very
little applied airbrake.

Unless I misunderstood you, first contact by the nosewheel as you
described indicates a failure to round out. In which case:

(1) its pilot error pure and simple

(2) you'd expect that it would break something due to either a
PIO or mashing the nosewheel up into the fuselage.

I'd expect the same result regardless of whether the glider was a G.103
or an ASK-21.


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