Good News on Delorme InReach (2 min tracking and altitude vs. Spot w/10 min tracking and no altitude)

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:25:10 AM UTC-8, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Sean,



Thank you for getting the $100 firmware fee waived for pilots going forward!

That is great news.



Note: Not all glider pilots will opt for the 1 minute tracking available in

the aviation plan. Even with their standard consumer plans with 10 minute

tracking intervals the units still transmit altitude and airspeed and

heading and have many other advantages over competitive units. But the 1

minute tracking is very exiting. I sincerely feel it could make soaring

contests much more fun for spectators.



There are a few other very nice advantages to the new DeLorme inReach:



*** Friends viewing your shared page can "ping" your location (if enabled)

even if the unit is not in tracking mode. That would be handy in an

emergency. The unit only needs to be turned-on.

*** Having the antenna on top makes it easy to get a good connection with

the unit in a pouch on your parachute strap.

*** Friends viewing your shared page can send you a message (if enabled) -

If your smartphone is on it will alert you to the reception of the message.

* 2-way messages can be sent to any email address or cell phone (text

message)

*** The inReach works great with, or without a smartphone connected to it..

It is easy to put into track mode and send one of 3 pre-defined messages

using the buttons on the front of the unit.

* Better satellite coverage than competitive products - 100% of the world is

covered

* Track points include not only GPS position, but also altitude,

groundspeed, and heading - making it easy for your friends to see whether or

not you are still flying.

* With the optional "Aviation" data plan, the tracking interval can be set

at 1, 1.5, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 60, 120 or 240 minutes. Using the 1 minute

tracking interval would make flight following at a soaring contest a lot of

fun. It would enhance safety by reducing the search radius in the even the

unit stopped transmitting.

*The tracking interval automatically goes to 4 hours when not moving and

back to the user selected tracking interval if you move more than 100 meters

(328 ft).

* Download free detailed topographical maps to your smartphone (at home) and

navigate using the inReach as your GPS data source when out in the field.



More details about the hardware and plans are available he

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm



I have put a lot of time into the site. I created spreadsheet tables that

make it easy to figure out how much the data plans will cost. If you find

the site useful - please buy your inReach unit from me.



Good Soaring,



Paul Remde

Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

_________________________________________________

"Sean F (F2)" wrote in message

...



I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big

argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.



The frustration I have had with Spot is its poor website interface, sub

standard social app integration and general poor usability. The Spot

connect device for example, will not start tracking unless you have cell

phone data available when you want to begin tracking. If you do not have

data available on your cellphone, no tracking! Additionally, their network

offers only position at 10 minute intervals and no altitude.



Delorme offers 2 minute intervals with altitude!!! These improvements will

make tracking soaring flights far more interesting and enjoyable for

spectators, crews, family and friends. It will also make it obvious if the

aircraft/pilot has landed or crashed (and potentially shorted response time

to send help or begin a search). With spot for example you have no idea if

the pilot is trying to make a low save over that point where traces are

stacking up over time or if they are indeed on the ground. With that, I was

very excited when I heard about the SSA's work to utilize the Delorme

product into a new tracking capability. The 2 minute updates and altitude

alone (along with better software on mobile and web) made the switch an easy

decision.



The only issue, as you might expect, is the higher cost of the Delorme unit

and service. The DeLorme InReach unit is $249

(http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm) vs. $150 for the Spot connect

or $99 for the older Spot II. 2 aspects of the DeLorme subscription plan

where, initially (yesterday), different. With DeLorme, the 2 minute

interval for Aviation is considered a "professional" account. This provides

upgraded 2 minute update intervals and altitude but comes at a more

expensive rate with potential overage charges (bit based). The plans assume

a certain number of flying hours per month (6 to 65) and range from $17 -

$62 per month. It looks like, for me, the $40 per month (34 hours) would be

sufficient for me.



The second aspect was the real problem. As I called DeLorme yesterday to

register my unit and buy the subscription plan, I learned of a business

practice which I found revolting. The support person told me that the unit

required a special firmware update in order to support the 2 minute

transmission schedule (the standard Delorme units use the traditional 10

minute intervals and this is how they come out of the box). The kicker was

(wait for it.......) that that firmware upgrade was going to cost me an

additional $100. I immediately thought of the complaining my Dad makes

about the $99 to $200 per year cost of the Spot subscription plan for his

glider. This complaining is not unique in the US soaring community. $40

per month ($480 per year) is alot already, but this "insult to injury" $100

firmware upgrade fee was simply out of bounds. There was little chance that

most soaring pilots would pay for this additional capability with a $200+

annual additional cost.



Needless to say I took the support people on and made a distinct argument as

to how ridiculous charging private pilots a $100 fee to use their more

expensive service after buying their more expensive unit. I was transferred

higher and higher up the chain as each person ran out of energy trying to

justify the charge. I cited their own website, press releases and

literature which claims all the aviation benefits (2 min, altitude, etc) but

makes no mention of a more costly rate plan or firmware charge. Soon I was

speaking with the head of marketing and he agreed to take my complaint (and

mild threats to publicize the business practice and false advertising) to

their executive strategy meeting this morning. After several emails to

various Delorme executives last night and this morning, I received the email

below. This email clearly acknowledges the stupidity of charging private

pilots (glider pilots, etc) $100 to upgrade the product and explains that

from this moment forward, DeLorme has changed its policy worldwide.



-----

Hello Sean



Thank you for your reply and interest in the DeLorme inReach.



I received permission to waive the $100 dollar upgrade in your case! Also

in discussions with upper management we will waive this upgrade for any

individual pilot. Thank you for your feedback!



To setup your account, please fill in the attached form and send it in a

reply email with the IMEI number of the device and the plan you would like

to choose from the Sell Sheet I sent you.



I would also need your Credit Card information listed below. Please contact

our Customer Care department (800.511.2459) and any of my reps. can take

this information.

Note: Please do not sent credit card information via email as that is an

unsecure method of communication.



Name on Card:

Type:

Number:

Expiration Date:

Security Code: (on back of card)

Billing address on card (if different from attached form)



If you have any questions, please reply to this email.



Regards,



Kurt Ringrose

DeLorme Customer Care Manager

Email-

Phone- 207.846.7112

Fax- 207.847.5112

Many answers can be found at our on-line knowledge base within the link

below.

http://support.delorme.com

Latitude 43°48.491' N, Longitude 70°09.844' W

----



I will have the my new DeLorme tracker running at Seniors in Florida in a

couple weeks and the CC Clinic the week afterwards. Frank Paynter is also

using the unit and is working with the SSA to get this higher level of

tracking integrated with the SSA website!



Best,



Sean

F2

So in sake of deciding how much switching to InReach will actually cost in annual fee (ignoring the initial cost of the unit which diminishes overtime comparing to the total cost of few year of subscription) it seems that for the same annual fee as the Spot service ($150) I can get the aviation subscription and set it to the same interval as spot (10 min) which will provide nearly 20 hours per month of tracking, which should be sufficient for most pilots. Those who fly less may even switch it to higher tracking rate. And if I understand correct, anyone viewing my shared page can ping me anytime for real time position. In addition it will provide altitude (very useful), much better UI and smarphone integration for two way text messaging, all for the same annual cost as Spot! Did I understand this correctly? If so, it is almost a no brainer better deal.

Ramy

Ramy,

You got it! :-). DeLorme InReach appears to be night and day better when compared to Spot. I never liked Spot to be honest and suspect that many of you felt the same. It annoyed me how poor and out of date it's website was. The mobile app was poor. As you can see from my sample track, DeLormes website is of very high quality. It runs beautifully on PC, Mac, Android and IOS. I am able to easily access all functions on any device or browser.. The software is well thought out and complete.

Your followers do have the ability (if tracking is forgotten or off) to ping you at any time and see your location, speed and altitude within 1 min typically. They do this simply thru the website tracking page. They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US contest rules :-( )

The costs are negligible for the aviation plans (2 min tracking interval) AND I still want someone to test if the regular plans provide altitude with 10 min updates. I suspect they do provide altitude as well but have not confirmed.

Sean

On 2/22/2013 9:16 AM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the
mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board
during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US
contest rules:-( )

It's not illegal to carry the phone in the glider. Cheez.

Further, not necessary to have a cell phone to read the text message, as
you can also use an iPad, iPod touch, Android device, or DeLorme PN-60w.

I'm thinking of carrying an iPod Touch anyway, loaded with sectionals
and a flight computer program (to back up my primary computer), and
perhaps as a remote viewer/controller for a video camera mounted on/in
the glider.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Eric,

Isn't it illegal to utilize outside communications while flying an SSA contest? Things such as cell or satellite accessed weather? Communicating with outside parties such as ground crew via cell data networks? By using the non cell phone devices you mention instead of cell enabled devices, as I understand current US SSA rules, you would (remember here in the SSA pilots are assumed guilty until proven innocent :-)) still have the same (SSA ILLEGAL) ability to exchange digital communications with your crew or other outside parties. Or imagine having your position relayed every 2 minutes to other pilots via sneaky crews, etc. Almost as terrible as the myth of Flarm Leeching. :-). FYI you can secure your DeLorme tracking map with a simple password...so this is not a big deal.

We are talking about satellite based communications vs. cell phone or radio based. Wether or not you use a iPod touch or an data/cell enabled iPhone makes very little difference in the application of each system. Both are illegal as I understand the rules. I feel like Johny English with useless instead of effective gadgets (smart phone AH, etc), but illegal gadgets nonetheless.

My point is that the useful, safety aspects of the DeLorme system greatly outweighs the dark side cheating risks. Nevertheless this technology is currently, technically illegal. This should be addressed....soon....

The other obvious upside of quality satellite tracking adoption by US amd Candian pilots would be the marketing enjoyment of following contest and cross country tasks with far better detail! This could be leveraged into a website for tracking events with live chat or commentary. Now cool would that be! I have do doe this for sailing events and it is great fun for all involved.

O jeez! Now the rules committee is probably calling DeLorme and asks them to disable these features. Damn!!!!

:-)

On 2/22/2013 1:05 PM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
Eric,

Isn't it illegal to utilize outside communications while flying an
SSA contest? Things such as cell or satellite accessed weather?
Communicating with outside parties such as ground crew via cell data
networks? By using the non cell phone devices you mention instead of
cell enabled devices, as I understand current US SSA rules, you would
(remember here in the SSA pilots are assumed guilty until proven
innocent :-)) still have the same (SSA ILLEGAL) ability to exchange
digital communications with your crew or other outside parties. Or
imagine having your position relayed every 2 minutes to other pilots
via sneaky crews, etc. Almost as terrible as the myth of Flarm
Leeching. :-). FYI you can secure your DeLorme tracking map with a
simple password...so this is not a big deal.

We are talking about satellite based communications vs. cell phone or
radio based. Wether or not you use a iPod touch or an data/cell
enabled iPhone makes very little difference in the application of
each system. Both are illegal as I understand the rules. I feel
like Johny English with useless instead of effective gadgets (smart
phone AH, etc), but illegal gadgets nonetheless.

My point is that the useful, safety aspects of the DeLorme system
greatly outweighs the dark side cheating risks. Nevertheless this
technology is currently, technically illegal. This should be
addressed....soon....

The other obvious upside of quality satellite tracking adoption by US
amd Candian pilots would be the marketing enjoyment of following
contest and cross country tasks with far better detail! This could
be leveraged into a website for tracking events with live chat or
commentary. Now cool would that be! I have do doe this for sailing
events and it is great fun for all involved.

O jeez! Now the rules committee is probably calling DeLorme and asks
them to disable these features. Damn!!!!

When you said "cell phone", I took you literally. The InReach, as you
know, is not a cell phone.

Do the rules prohibit having a communications device other than a com
radio? Or just prohibit the use of the device? Communication with your
crew is allowed via the radio, so it's not clear to me that
communicating with your crew via InReach is prohibited.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Hi Eric,

I have a slight correction to your note below. The DeLorme PN-60w does not
work with the inReach for smartphones. There are 2 different versions of
the inReach - one for smartphones and one for the PN-60w. I only plan to
sell the one for use with smartphones.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
___________________________

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ...

On 2/22/2013 9:16 AM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the
mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board
during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US
contest rules:-( )

It's not illegal to carry the phone in the glider. Cheez.

Further, not necessary to have a cell phone to read the text message, as
you can also use an iPad, iPod touch, Android device, or DeLorme PN-60w.

I'm thinking of carrying an iPod Touch anyway, loaded with sectionals
and a flight computer program (to back up my primary computer), and
perhaps as a remote viewer/controller for a video camera mounted on/in
the glider.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

That was copied off the InReach site. I didn't realize there were two
versions. In any case, the smartphone version will work with non-phones
devices like the iPod Touch and iPad.

On 2/22/2013 2:19 PM, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Eric,

I have a slight correction to your note below. The DeLorme PN-60w does
not work with the inReach for smartphones. There are 2 different
versions of the inReach - one for smartphones and one for the PN-60w. I
only plan to sell the one for use with smartphones.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
___________________________

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ...

On 2/22/2013 9:16 AM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the
mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board
during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US
contest rules:-( )

It's not illegal to carry the phone in the glider. Cheez.

Further, not necessary to have a cell phone to read the text message, as
you can also use an iPad, iPod touch, Android device, or DeLorme PN-60w.

I'm thinking of carrying an iPod Touch anyway, loaded with sectionals
and a flight computer program (to back up my primary computer), and
perhaps as a remote viewer/controller for a video camera mounted on/in
the glider.



--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Sure would be great I'd it was not illegal to have a useful satellite based tracking system onboard. But based on the recent RC behavior and current rules, I have doubts. It would not surprise me in the slightest to hear complaints AND a rule against this technology...

Tell me I am wrong. Anyone.

Is a dim light starting to flicker in your minds....... Anyone?

Sean
F2

Have used the InReach for a few more trips and it has been flawless. Only issue Inhabe is drilling down to detailed information (point data, altitude) on the public map page on an iPhone can be tricky. I have recommended to Delorme an iPhone specific page be created. Seems to work better on larger Android screens.

Hi Sean,

I have one small correction to your note below. It is my understanding that
when your unit is pinged from your shared tracking page the reply is sent
out at the same interval as the unit is setup for tracking. If you have the
tracking interval set to 10 minutes, the ping will get a reply after up to
10 minutes.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
____________________________

"Sean F (F2)" wrote in message
...

Ramy,

You got it! :-). DeLorme InReach appears to be night and day better when
compared to Spot. I never liked Spot to be honest and suspect that many of
you felt the same. It annoyed me how poor and out of date it's website was.
The mobile app was poor. As you can see from my sample track, DeLormes
website is of very high quality. It runs beautifully on PC, Mac, Android
and IOS. I am able to easily access all functions on any device or browser.
The software is well thought out and complete.

Your followers do have the ability (if tracking is forgotten or off) to ping
you at any time and see your location, speed and altitude within 1 min
typically. They do this simply thru the website tracking page. They can
also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the mobile app you
can read it (note: having your cell phone on board during contest flight is
currently illegal according to the SSA US contest rules :-( )

The costs are negligible for the aviation plans (2 min tracking interval)
AND I still want someone to test if the regular plans provide altitude with
10 min updates. I suspect they do provide altitude as well but have not
confirmed.

Sean