Turn coordinator? How dare they!

At 17:56 27 February 2013, Evan Ludeman wrote:
So what's the etiquette for cloud flying in comps? So here we are, four
of=
us climbing happily at 4 kts under a great big towering cu, no more than
1=
50 vertical feet of separation total. Conditions are poor up ahead but
wit=
h another 3 or 4 thousand feet we can all make it to the finish with good
s=
peed and no further climbing. The first guy disappears into the fog.
Now
=
what? Just curious.

T8


As you will know from my post I bottled,and it is a historic fact there
was a
mid air in cloud in a worlds back in the 60's I think David Innes was one
it
was re written in sailplane and gliding about 10 years ago .As I said
enterprise is some what different so there is less chance you will be
gaggle
flying .
Some one will explain I am sure but you need to announce you intentions
and position on the comp frequency and change to cloud frequency and re
transmit and if you have more courage than me wait till they call clear
then
off you go.
Plonckers need not apply ,I consider anyone without a ATPL a ploncker.

The UK procedure when cloud flying is not to enter from below if somebody else has climbed into it until there is at least 500 ft separation. Then each calls out altitude (amsl) periodically to maintain separation.

It seems to work. No collisions in cloud since this and other procedures were introduced.

FWIW, in my experience it is rare to be climbing in the same cloud as others anyway, but on the few occasions I have done it, it worked OK.

Chris N

On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:53:37 PM UTC-5, Chris Nicholas wrote:
The UK procedure when cloud flying is not to enter from below if somebody else has climbed into it until there is at least 500 ft separation. Then each calls out altitude (amsl) periodically to maintain separation. It seems to work. No collisions in cloud since this and other procedures were introduced. FWIW, in my experience it is rare to be climbing in the same cloud as others anyway, but on the few occasions I have done it, it worked OK. Chris N

How do you keep from getting hit by airplanes flying in the same cloud? Presumably IFR airplanes are flying in cloud.
Curious
UH

Short answer, big sky, little (and very few) bullets in cloud.

PCAS can also be used.

So can radio to ATC when appropriate.

I have read that UK and USA airspace is different, so please excuse me if I tell you what you already know.

Most glider cloud climbing is on good thermal days with isolated cu, typically cloud base 4000’ or more, and in class G which covers most of the country. On such days, in class G, almost all GA (power) keeps well below cloud. Those that go as high as the cu tend to go round them, to avoid turbulence (i.e. our lift). Some go above the clouds, where we can’t get.

One area I use for cloud climbing is near a military complex. I often call them to see if they have traffic at cloud levels near me (never have yet) before switching to glider cloud flying frequency. And I have PCAS (as well as Flarm).

There have been only 5 UK collisions between gliders and unrelated power since 1970. 3 were in gliding circuit areas, the other 2 well below cloud base in good VMC. (Both the latter were power flying into the glider – one from behind, the other from below when aerobatting.) Airprox data also show all glider/power incidents in VMC and usually well away from clouds.

There have been far more glider/glider collisions – and we all take that risk, albeit mitigating as best we can. But that is another story.

Chris N