Can gliding become a TV sport?

On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:59:32 AM UTC-7, Squeaky wrote:
Imagine the fun and camera's covering a landout...
Like the one story in Soaring magazine where the buuba's on the four
wheelers and the babes in tank tops come out with beer to help...

Or Farmer Bill goes off on a rant about his destroyed peanut plants and
the thousands of dollars he wants in recompense, swearing at flyboys
havin their fun and not caring about the 'merican farmer...

Glider pilots getting into fights back at the field about sharing

thermals, circling the wrong way, near misses, etc...

..you know, all the stuff that never happens until a camera crew turns

up.
If that aint reality TV nothing is.

Squeaky

Funny post. But the proposed event is nothing like what we now know as a competition. It's a short 1 - 2 hour AST with emergency landing fields already picked out. Someone might land in a farm field but it's unlikely and the farmers would have been warned of the possibility and arrangements made.

On 28/02/2013 04:09, Bill D wrote:

Good points but I think they will be overcome.
...
The masses of TV viewers will never adopt gliding but they don't
adopt many other sports either although do enjoy watching them. At
any one time our infrastructure can only accept a few thousand
newcomers. If TV coverage of glider races could provide those few,
we'd be in great shape.

Maybe - but it isn't a shape I want my sport to be in.

I like it as it is and it's as much mine as yours. I'm enjoying my
flying and I enjoy the friends I have in gliding. There is nothing more
I ask from the sport. For me the sport centres on my Club and my flying
field and my local region and they're in good shape. Young men with
wider ambitions can tear the sport off me when I'm dead but right now -
I'll fight them for it. I like it as it is.

I have no interest in watching gliding on TV - I'm a participant. How
would a million TV viewers increase my and my friends' enjoyment of
gliding? Worse, the level at which I participate would be killed by TV
popularity. The sport - like motor sports - would become dominated by
the demands of the professionals and the amateur end would be squashed
by the juggernaut.

Anybody who thinks gliding is comparable to cycling is deluded. The
closest comparison is motor sport and they're not faring any better at
the bottom than gliding. Worse, in fact. The next best comparison is
sailing and I've watched what professionalism has done there with very
little enthusiasm. It didn't improve my sailing pleasure one iota.

An earlier post said "...It's OK if you don't want to participate but
what's the point in discouraging others?" The point is that it's MY
sport as much as it's theirs and what they want would kill it from MY
point of view. So I WILL fight them for it. I will fight to stop it
becoming the plaything of bombast-stoked ******s.

GC

On 28/02/2013 05:54, Sean F (F2) wrote:
It's far easier to be skeptical about something than to go after
something. Fearing failure is my main pet peeve. In this case
someone else is doing ALL of the work and massive upside exists even
if he/she is only marginally successful.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Just because those who
have tried before have failed is no reason not to try again. We need
growth. Growth requires marketing. Grass roots marketing (look
around you) only gets you so far.

Here, a guy (Mario Hytten) is trying to build soaring marking against
the tide of ourselves. He asks for you to pledge (for example) $50
to kickstarter so he can make our sport ANOTHER amazing soaring video
and build awareness. Predictably, many cant find much positive to
say about it and spend more effort sighting all the reasons it will
fail. Heaven forbid cough up $50 to support it.

Explains a lot really. I donated to this kickstarter project. Why
not? How about you?

If you really want to see the sport of soaring truly grow in a
meaningful, measurable way, send in some money. If not, please get
out of your own way and let those with some vision and guys take over
(do the talking) and try and move the ball forward where we have so
clearly failed.

Sean, it is absolutely clear that you and I live on different planets.
My gliding world hasn't failed. Which direction would be forward? I
see no real reason for the sport to grow. It satisfies me perfectly
well as it is. And videos give me a headache.

Our main point of difference, though, is that I think it's no more YOUR
sport than it is MINE. I also think that how I'd like it to be is as
valid as how you want it to be. And I'm happy to discuss our
differences. But you don't see other ideas as valid in any way and all
you do is yell at people (see your post above) and try to shout them
down (see your post above) on whatever issue frustrates you at the time
(see many earlier posts on US RC).

You're pretty forceful and intransigent that you have the only valid
view (see your post above and many previous posts) so I think I'll need
to be equally forceful to have my view heard over your yelling.

It's pretty clear that the sport itself - as it is - is NOT satisfying
to you. Clearly, you're not in it for the flying pleasure but for some
driven aspects of your personality that need to be stroked by
competitive success, organisational authority and wide public acclaim.
Please go somewhere else to get those itches scratched.

IT'S NOT YOUR SPORT TO BUGGER UP!

NO! I'm not going to get out of your way. AS far as I can, I'll stand
in it. I see your vision as a horror movie with a bad ending. The ball
you're so eager to move forward is imaginary and hardly anybody else is
on your team. I think the silent majority see it much as I do.

....and demographics is on my side!

Now, is there something you'd like to discuss - as distinct from yell about?

Thanks,

Sean

My pleasure,

GC

Meh. Visually more interesting sports have tried and failed. Besides you guys are ignoring the big issue, no one wants to watch geriatric 'athletes.' Sailing is doing better on tv, partly because of the marketing genius of Redbull, mostly because the new cats and wing sails are fast and crash in a manner that makes NASCAR blush. Happy to see folks try, be fun to watch fans turn up after seeing glider racing on tv and get introduced to the 2-33. There are successes I couldn't find viewer numbers but understand the Redbull Xalps(900 km rag soaring race) is very popular, at least in Europe. Here is a sample https://www.redbullcontentpool.com/content/xalps
Gliding just needs young, likeable, tv friendly pilots...

At 06:36 28 February 2013, GC wrote:
On 28/02/2013 04:09, Bill D wrote:

Good points but I think they will be overcome.
...
The masses of TV viewers will never adopt gliding but they don't
adopt many other sports either although do enjoy watching them. At
any one time our infrastructure can only accept a few thousand
newcomers. If TV coverage of glider races could provide those few,
we'd be in great shape.

Maybe - but it isn't a shape I want my sport to be in.

I like it as it is and it's as much mine as yours. I'm enjoying my
flying and I enjoy the friends I have in gliding. There is nothing more
I ask from the sport. For me the sport centres on my Club and my flying
field and my local region and they're in good shape. Young men with
wider ambitions can tear the sport off me when I'm dead but right now -
I'll fight them for it. I like it as it is.

I have no interest in watching gliding on TV - I'm a participant. How
would a million TV viewers increase my and my friends' enjoyment of
gliding? Worse, the level at which I participate would be killed by TV
popularity. The sport - like motor sports - would become dominated by
the demands of the professionals and the amateur end would be squashed
by the juggernaut.

Anybody who thinks gliding is comparable to cycling is deluded. The
closest comparison is motor sport and they're not faring any better at
the bottom than gliding. Worse, in fact. The next best comparison is
sailing and I've watched what professionalism has done there with very
little enthusiasm. It didn't improve my sailing pleasure one iota.

An earlier post said "...It's OK if you don't want to participate but
what's the point in discouraging others?" The point is that it's MY
sport as much as it's theirs and what they want would kill it from MY
point of view. So I WILL fight them for it. I will fight to stop it
becoming the plaything of bombast-stoked ******s.

GC


G, I have a heap of sympathy for your take on this. especially your last
line!..................however, demographically I am in the middle here as
a late starter at age 49, now 52, I look around my Club and the wider
sailplane scene and the view is a sea of white hair or bald heads and
wrinkly faces atop bodies that don't bend as well as they used to (and they
are to the last man (or woman) great company) but it makes me wonder just
who is going to be lifting my wingroot or hooking me on in twenty years
time? the sport needs to suck a little bit of youth into it somehow.

I find it hilarious that an effort to label my comments as yelling has been made. I am only one. It is, of course, up to others here to listen to whomever they choose. I suspect frustration. This is to be expected in those with different viewpoints when they are insecure about their position in a discussion.

I for one applaud those who speak up for their ideas and thoughts and defend them with passion. I applaud them if they are with me or against me. Last I checked this is how public forums (private institutions as well for that matter) worked. If you have another idea as to what is acceptable for the RAS people I am sure we are all ears.

Back to the topic at hand.

The idea that TV, DVDs or Internet videos about soaring are somehow bad for "your sport" is hilariously ridiculous (IMHO). The idea that these efforts will "bugger up" your sport is the most laughable thing I heard in many days. Thank you for that. Laughing is so good for us.. Much appreciated.

Are you seriously claiming that the glider Grand Prix videos (New Zealand and Chile) have hurt our (sorry, your) sport? Please explain. Please provide quantifiable evidence of the damage these events and their videos have caused to "your sport?"

The reality (apparently I need to explain it further) is that the Sky Race World Cup idea is totally independent and you and your club. These efforts will have zero functional impact on anything we do normally in soaring. This has nothing to do with you and "your friends" at your club. There is clear upside if the effort is succesful and absolutely zero downside. If you see downside, please explain.

How it can be percieved as a threat is predictable and yet fascinating. The natural human fear of change and new ideas is an amazing topic. I live with these detractors daily in my profesional world (and usually eat them for breakfast). At least they have an argument to respect. This argument about skyraceworldcup being a damaging invader to the sport of sparing is fundementally ridiculous. But I would appreciate a compete argument for the fun of it.

The sailplane Grand Prix / Skyraceworldcup is something an independent person, with their own money, focus and creativity, is trying to create and build. He has been working on it for some time. It will continue to take tremendous effort to be successful. The only by-products of this massive effort will be more amazing soaring videos about wonder of gliding and journey of certain young people thru out the gliding world take in order to produce superior skills over their competitors in competition. This story will be shared with the world in a manner and scale that greatly exceeds anything before it. We are talking Americas Cup levels of exposure perhaps one day. This is bad why exactly? It does not discount any other aspect of the sport in any way, shape or form. It, on a scale far greater than any other imaginable, has the potential of getting massive amounts of "net new" people interested in trying that sport (Sailing, soaring, etc) which they experience on TV (or Internet video).

If you want to produce a video series about your friends flying at your club, go ahead! That's wonderful!!! I support you fully. I'll start by sending you $100. Tell me where to send it. But we both know you don't want to do anything meaningful here other than squash the likelihood of enthusiasm about skyraceworldcup.com most likely because you don't fully understand it and your brain has defaulted to its pre-programmed but all to common reaction. Sad thing is that their might be potential in that path as well.

You (all) have 4 choices (perhaps 5) on how to behave in regards to Mario's skyraceworldcup.com idea: You can 1) support it by donating $ to the "Wings over Sweden" kickstarter project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-over-sweden-0) and being positive about this project within the soaring community 2) You can "not donate" but be supportive about the project. 3) you can ignore it. 4) you can criticize it. 5) you can actively attack it, demonize it and try and defeat it? For those of you in the 4-5 region I say......WTF?

People who chose 4-5 are literally in their own way as well as our sports. They see soaring as their own private thing and honestly want few others to know about it. They actually are fine with the sports poor growth and low public interest. What it is today is "all good" for them and they are all that matters. They stand in the way of publicity and TV interest (unless of course they miraculously somehow are the source of the publicity). Shocking but true. The idea of a new wave of energy sweeping into the sport from another source is clearly terrifying to them. They actually want to stop this energy. They actively campaign against it.

The people who choose 3 are almost equally damaging to the sports growth becusse of their proportional scale. Unfortunately this is where most of us likely lie. This segment driwns enthusiasm by being passive. You shrug your shoulders and think it doesnt matter much to me. If you are in the 3 camp, please watch Mario's presentation with special attention to the importance of the Halo effect: http://youtu.be/vKdI5pnoaAU

I for one have chosen #1. I hope some more of you will make the same choice. Perhaps at least #2. I for one truly look forward to another great video on soaring from these folks! I look forward to the real potential for a fascinating glider racing series and watching some lucky young pilots striving to become a part of this new premier soaring event.

Best,

Sean
F2

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:41:44 -0800, gb wrote:

Meh. Visually more interesting sports have tried and failed. Besides
you guys are ignoring the big issue, no one wants to watch geriatric
'athletes.' Sailing is doing better on tv, partly because of the
marketing genius of Redbull, mostly because the new cats and wing sails
are fast and crash in a manner that makes NASCAR blush. Happy to see
folks try, be fun to watch fans turn up after seeing glider racing on tv
and get introduced to the 2-33. There are successes I couldn't find
viewer numbers but understand the Redbull Xalps(900 km rag soaring race)
is very popular, at least in Europe. Here is a sample
https://www.redbullcontentpool.com/content/xalps Gliding just needs
young, likeable, tv friendly pilots...

So, consider targetting your recruitment around universities...


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:25:06 AM UTC-7, Jp Stewart wrote:
Just sharing the link of the webinar help this past Sunday on soaring as a TV sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdI5...ature=youtu.be



JP

If you watch Mario Hytten's video, you'll see no "geriatric" athletes. All the racing pilots will be young and photogenic. He understands what advertizes want. As a "geezer glider guider" I'm OK with that.

I, for one, am not against change, but I get awfully tired of people (mainly
you, Sean) telling me, and those of like mind, that we should donate money
to your cause or that "we" should mandate equipment that you favor in all of
our cockpits.

By all means, make your videos and share them on the net. Install all the
blind flying instruments you desire, donate to your favorite causes, but
please, quit harranguing the rest of us to do likewise.

C'mon Spring!


"Sean F (F2)" wrote in message
...
I find it hilarious that an effort to label my comments as yelling has been
made. I am only one. It is, of course, up to others here to listen to
whomever they choose. I suspect frustration. This is to be expected in
those with different viewpoints when they are insecure about their position
in a discussion.

I for one applaud those who speak up for their ideas and thoughts and defend
them with passion. I applaud them if they are with me or against me. Last
I checked this is how public forums (private institutions as well for that
matter) worked. If you have another idea as to what is acceptable for the
RAS people I am sure we are all ears.

Back to the topic at hand.

The idea that TV, DVDs or Internet videos about soaring are somehow bad for
"your sport" is hilariously ridiculous (IMHO). The idea that these efforts
will "bugger up" your sport is the most laughable thing I heard in many
days. Thank you for that. Laughing is so good for us.. Much appreciated.

Are you seriously claiming that the glider Grand Prix videos (New Zealand
and Chile) have hurt our (sorry, your) sport? Please explain. Please
provide quantifiable evidence of the damage these events and their videos
have caused to "your sport?"

The reality (apparently I need to explain it further) is that the Sky Race
World Cup idea is totally independent and you and your club. These efforts
will have zero functional impact on anything we do normally in soaring.
This has nothing to do with you and "your friends" at your club. There is
clear upside if the effort is succesful and absolutely zero downside. If
you see downside, please explain.

How it can be percieved as a threat is predictable and yet fascinating. The
natural human fear of change and new ideas is an amazing topic. I live with
these detractors daily in my profesional world (and usually eat them for
breakfast). At least they have an argument to respect. This argument about
skyraceworldcup being a damaging invader to the sport of sparing is
fundementally ridiculous. But I would appreciate a compete argument for the
fun of it.

The sailplane Grand Prix / Skyraceworldcup is something an independent
person, with their own money, focus and creativity, is trying to create and
build. He has been working on it for some time. It will continue to take
tremendous effort to be successful. The only by-products of this massive
effort will be more amazing soaring videos about wonder of gliding and
journey of certain young people thru out the gliding world take in order to
produce superior skills over their competitors in competition. This story
will be shared with the world in a manner and scale that greatly exceeds
anything before it. We are talking Americas Cup levels of exposure perhaps
one day. This is bad why exactly? It does not discount any other aspect of
the sport in any way, shape or form. It, on a scale far greater than any
other imaginable, has the potential of getting massive amounts of "net new"
people interested in trying that sport (Sailing, soaring, etc) which they
experience on TV (or Internet video).

If you want to produce a video series about your friends flying at your
club, go ahead! That's wonderful!!! I support you fully. I'll start by
sending you $100. Tell me where to send it. But we both know you don't
want to do anything meaningful here other than squash the likelihood of
enthusiasm about skyraceworldcup.com most likely because you don't fully
understand it and your brain has defaulted to its pre-programmed but all to
common reaction. Sad thing is that their might be potential in that path as
well.

You (all) have 4 choices (perhaps 5) on how to behave in regards to Mario's
skyraceworldcup.com idea: You can 1) support it by donating $ to the "Wings
over Sweden" kickstarter project
(http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-over-sweden-0)
and being positive about this project within the soaring community 2) You
can "not donate" but be supportive about the project. 3) you can ignore it.
4) you can criticize it. 5) you can actively attack it, demonize it and try
and defeat it? For those of you in the 4-5 region I say......WTF?

People who chose 4-5 are literally in their own way as well as our sports.
They see soaring as their own private thing and honestly want few others to
know about it. They actually are fine with the sports poor growth and low
public interest. What it is today is "all good" for them and they are all
that matters. They stand in the way of publicity and TV interest (unless of
course they miraculously somehow are the source of the publicity). Shocking
but true. The idea of a new wave of energy sweeping into the sport from
another source is clearly terrifying to them. They actually want to stop
this energy. They actively campaign against it.

The people who choose 3 are almost equally damaging to the sports growth
becusse of their proportional scale. Unfortunately this is where most of us
likely lie. This segment driwns enthusiasm by being passive. You shrug
your shoulders and think it doesnt matter much to me. If you are in the 3
camp, please watch Mario's presentation with special attention to the
importance of the Halo effect: http://youtu.be/vKdI5pnoaAU

I for one have chosen #1. I hope some more of you will make the same
choice. Perhaps at least #2. I for one truly look forward to another great
video on soaring from these folks! I look forward to the real potential for
a fascinating glider racing series and watching some lucky young pilots
striving to become a part of this new premier soaring event.

Best,

Sean
F2