Is the 787 a failure ?

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 12:16:30 -0800 (PST), Transition Zone
wrote:

On Mar 1, 12:08*pm, Richard wrote:
On 3/1/2013 11:02 AM, Transition Zone wrote:









On Mar 1, 4:06 am, *wrote:
On 03/02/2013 03:05, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Sat, 02 Feb 2013 16:48:44 -0800, the renowned Gunner
*wrote:

Im trying to remember which prop job in the 1950s kept going
down...British aircraft IRRC....which had the tails snapping
off...some sort of metal fatigue/harmonics issue which took them
awhile to find and correct. They did a movie about it in the 1960s
IRRC

Turbojet, but maybe this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet

They didn't understand metal fatigue very well in those days- nice big
square windows in the early models.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

It wasn't the fuselage windows for the passengers that caused the
problem (at least for G-ALYP), it was the ADF window in the roof. The
passenger windows did fail in the tank test though. The stresses at the
corners turned out to be higher then de Havilland's engineers had suspected.http://www.oocities.org/capecanavera...cogalyp.htm#yy

I see they later made the naval versions with fewer windows. *Renamed
as an MR.2P, one was shown crashing into a lake near Toronto 10 or so
years ago.

--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o6PitZEmMI

This aircraft has been flying since 1967, and has given excellent
service.

But you post a fatal crash video you found on the first page of
google
returns.

Bah!

Right, thanks for that. That aircraft is supposed to scour the water
for enemy craft. That is its specialty. So crashing in a friendly
lake full of civilians on a bright sunny day isn't exactly the first
think you'd expect from that "service".
It was an "air show" - the MOST dangerous aviation activity, short
of all-out war.

NTSB update, 11 am Eastern, Thursday:
|
| The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will issue
| an interim report Thursday on the lithium ion battery fire
| in January aboard a parked Boeing 787 Dreamliner at Logan
| Airport in Boston.
| ...
| The NTSB has been trying to establish what caused the short
| circuit, but experts have expressed doubt whether that will
| ever be known for sure, given the level of damage to the
| battery.
|
| There's no indication that the interim report will provide
| an answer, though it may make clearer whether or not a
| definitive cause is likely to be identified later.
|
| The report is "factual in nature and does not provide any
| analysis," the NTSB said in a statement Wednesday.
| ...
| Boeing has proposed a fix for the battery problem -- which,
| in the absence of a known root cause, attempts to address
| all possible battery system malfunctions. The company is
| awaiting approval from the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA)
| to implement that fix.
|
| The FAA is expected to give its initial response late this
| week or early next.
|
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2020500473_ntsb787xml.html

--bks

|
| (Reuters) - U.S. safety regulators are poised to approve
| within days a plan to allow Boeing to begin flight tests of
| the 787 Dreamliner with a fix for its volatile batteries, a
| critical step towards returning the grounded aircraft to
| service, two sources familiar with the matter said on
| Wednesday.
|
| The Federal Aviation Administration is expected to sign off
| on a "certification plan" allowing Boeing to carry out the
| flight tests to determine if authorities can lift a flight
| ban that sent shockwaves around the airline industry seven
| weeks ago.
| ...
| Aboulafia estimated that it would take at least four months
| for the 787 to get cleared to fly if the FAA approves
| flight tests soon. If flight testing approval takes longer,
| it could take six to nine months before the 787 is back in
| the sky.
| ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/07/boeing-faa-idUSL1N0BYK8Y20130307

--bks

NTSB Has nothing, nada, zilch:
|
| (Reuters) - The National Transportation Safety Board is
| examining the certification and testing of the lithium-ion
| battery system on the Boeing Co 787, the NTSB said on
| Thursday.
|
| The NTSB's "interim factual report" on a January battery
| fire in Boston did not include any conclusions about the
| cause of the fire, which contributed to the plane's
| grounding by regulators.
|
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/07/boeing-dreamliner-ntsb-idUSWEN0083S20130307

Here's what NTSB released (warning, 500 pages):
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=54251&CFID=2871&CFTOKEN=67900 912

--bks

| ...
| * Boeing outsourced both the analysis and testing of the
| battery system's safety to its subcontractor, Thales of
| France, and to the battery maker, GS Yuasa of Japan.
| ...
| * Testing of the battery charging unit (BCU) system was
| done by a Thales sub-contractor, Securaplane of Tucson,
| Ariz.
|
| Early developmental testing of this system resulted in a
| major battery fire in 2006 that burned down a Securaplane
| building. After this, actual batteries were used only for
| isolated tests, with most of the testing instead using
| equipment that provided an electrical load representative
| of what a battery would provide.
|
| The NTSB notes that there doesn't seem to have been any
| testing of the charging system and battery together as an
| integrated system inside the airplane.
| ...
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2020505762_ntsb787reportxml.html

--bks

?:
|
| NEW YORK - The stock market crept higher Monday, pushing
| the Dow Jones industrial average to its seventh straight
| day of gains.
|
| Boeing was the Dow's top stock, surging 2 percent. A Boeing
| executive reportedly said he's confident the aircraft maker
| has figured out a fix for the battery problems that have
| grounded the 787 Dreamliner.
| ...
http://www.dailymail.com/Business/201303110163

--bks

FAA Press Release:
|
| WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Federal Aviation Administration
|
| (FAA) today approved the Boeing Commercial Airplane
| Company's certification plan for the redesigned 787 battery
| system, after thoroughly reviewing Boeing's proposed
| modifications and the company's plan to demonstrate that
| the system will meet FAA requirements. The certification
| plan is the first step in the process to evaluate the 787's
| return to flight and requires Boeing to conduct extensive
| testing and analysis to demonstrate compliance with the
| applicable safety regulations and special conditions.
| ...
| The FAA will approve the redesign only if the company
| successfully completes all required tests and analysis to
| demonstrate the new design complies with FAA requirements.
| The FAA's January 16, 2013 airworthiness directive, which
| required operators to temporarily cease 787 operations, is
| still in effect, and the FAA is continuing its
| comprehensive review of the 787 design, production and
| manufacturing process.
|
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14394

--bks