IDF-Apache firing missiles on 67yr old civilian in wheelchair- at Sabra mosque in Gaza...

In us.military.army Ragnar wrote:

Those guys NEVER
do the suicide dance - they convince other people to do it.

Little convincing is necessary when you've had your arms broken by Israeli
soldiers at age 14, seen your brother kidnapped, held, and tortured, watched
your sister shot by a sniper, and then had your house bulldozed.

I'm a fairly peacefuly person, but if a party did that to me and mine,
I'd pull out all of the stops to hurt he and his - I don't think many of us
would be much different.



--
.................................................. ............................

One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in

-Wayne Gretzky

.................................................. ............................
http://www.memeticcandiru.com

In article _ql8c.3159$%w2.1454@clgrps13,
wrote:

In us.military.army Ragnar wrote:

Those guys NEVER
do the suicide dance - they convince other people to do it.

Little convincing is necessary when you've had your arms broken by
Israeli soldiers at age 14, seen your brother kidnapped, held, and
tortured, watched your sister shot by a sniper, and then had your
house bulldozed.

It's funny how you say "little convincing" when they have to send their
walking bombs through a fairly intense brainwashing session, then pay
the families of those bombers a large reward for having their sons and
daughters blow themselves up.

I'm a fairly peacefuly person, but if a party did that to me and mine,
I'd pull out all of the stops to hurt he and his - I don't think many of us
would be much different.

So instead of attacking the soldiers who had supposedly done all of the
stuff you list above, you'd strap on a bomb and blow up a bus, causing
the Israelis to come into the Gaza Strip and bulldoze your house?

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote :

It's funny how you say "little convincing" when they have to send their
walking bombs through a fairly intense brainwashing session, then pay
the families of those bombers a large reward for having their sons and
daughters blow themselves up.

Desperate people are doing desperate things against those who put them in
such misery. Those people had lost everything and their lives doesn't mean
nothing if their family will live little better after that.
After living in such misery a 1000$ is real Jack Pot.

In article ,
"Nicky" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote :

It's funny how you say "little convincing" when they have to send their
walking bombs through a fairly intense brainwashing session, then pay
the families of those bombers a large reward for having their sons and
daughters blow themselves up.

Desperate people are doing desperate things against those who put them in
such misery.

....like talking "slow" neighbor children (not their own!) into wearing
bomb vests, paying them the equivalent of $22, and sending them off to
blow up Israelis at checkpoints with a potential reward of 72 virgins.

Desperate people don't do that. Evil people do that.

Those people had lost everything and their lives doesn't mean
nothing if their family will live little better after that.

Actually, a lot of the bombers are more or less middle class, and not
particularly poor.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/...30307.joyce.ht
ml

After living in such misery a 1000$ is real Jack Pot.

"As for the bombers themselves, Krueger says terrorist literature
indicates they are more likely to come from the ranks of middle-class
college students."

You need to reassess your opinions on this one.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. com...
In article ,
"Nicky" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote :

It's funny how you say "little convincing" when they have to send
their
walking bombs through a fairly intense brainwashing session, then pay
the families of those bombers a large reward for having their sons and
daughters blow themselves up.

Desperate people are doing desperate things against those who put them
in
such misery.

...like talking "slow" neighbor children (not their own!) into wearing
bomb vests, paying them the equivalent of $22, and sending them off to
blow up Israelis at checkpoints with a potential reward of 72 virgins.

Desperate people don't do that. Evil people do that.

Those people had lost everything and their lives doesn't mean
nothing if their family will live little better after that.

Actually, a lot of the bombers are more or less middle class, and not
particularly poor.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/...30307.joyce.ht
ml

After living in such misery a 1000$ is real Jack Pot.

"As for the bombers themselves, Krueger says terrorist literature
indicates they are more likely to come from the ranks of middle-class
college students."

You need to reassess your opinions on this one.


The profile of suicidal bombers has been changing lately. HOWEVER, I'm not
sure if the bombers in Palestine fit the profile that you mention above. I
think that was the profile for the 9/11 crew and other international
terrorists, not the people that strap bombs to their chest and walk into a
crowded area in Israel.

In article et,
"LawsonE" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. com...

Actually, a lot of the bombers are more or less middle class, and not
particularly poor.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/...30307.joyce.ht
ml

After living in such misery a 1000$ is real Jack Pot.

"As for the bombers themselves, Krueger says terrorist literature
indicates they are more likely to come from the ranks of middle-class
college students."

You need to reassess your opinions on this one.

The profile of suicidal bombers has been changing lately. HOWEVER, I'm not
sure if the bombers in Palestine fit the profile that you mention above. I
think that was the profile for the 9/11 crew and other international
terrorists, not the people that strap bombs to their chest and walk into a
crowded area in Israel.

Nope. It's a fairly widespread trend. The story quoted even mentions
it.

"At Princeton University, economist Alan Krueger has studied not only
bombers but the views of the Palestinian public on terror attacks aimed
at Israelis. Again, surveys found no link between poverty and
illiteracy and support for terror."

From an earlier paper:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/povterror.htm

"New research by Claude Berrebi, a graduate student at Princeton, has
found that 13 percent of Palestinian suicide bombers are from
impoverished families, while about a third of the Palestinian
population is in poverty. A remarkable 57 percent of suicide bombers
have some education beyond high school, compared with just 15 percent
of the population of comparable age."

The root cause of terrorism is not poverty, it's repression and
extremism.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...
In article et,
"LawsonE" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. com...

Actually, a lot of the bombers are more or less middle class, and not
particularly poor.


http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/...30307.joyce.ht
ml

After living in such misery a 1000$ is real Jack Pot.

"As for the bombers themselves, Krueger says terrorist literature
indicates they are more likely to come from the ranks of middle-class
college students."

You need to reassess your opinions on this one.

The profile of suicidal bombers has been changing lately. HOWEVER, I'm
not
sure if the bombers in Palestine fit the profile that you mention above.
I
think that was the profile for the 9/11 crew and other international
terrorists, not the people that strap bombs to their chest and walk into
a
crowded area in Israel.

Nope. It's a fairly widespread trend. The story quoted even mentions
it.

"At Princeton University, economist Alan Krueger has studied not only
bombers but the views of the Palestinian public on terror attacks aimed
at Israelis. Again, surveys found no link between poverty and
illiteracy and support for terror."

From an earlier paper:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/povterror.htm

"New research by Claude Berrebi, a graduate student at Princeton, has
found that 13 percent of Palestinian suicide bombers are from
impoverished families, while about a third of the Palestinian
population is in poverty. A remarkable 57 percent of suicide bombers
have some education beyond high school, compared with just 15 percent
of the population of comparable age."

The root cause of terrorism is not poverty, it's repression and
extremism.


Not sure that that can be supported by what you said. The terrorists
themselves may be better educated than the norm (how many are college and
post-college graduates, BTW?), but the justifications they use for their
actions may be totally different than what you're concluding from their
backgrounds.

Repression and extremism may play an important role, but unless you can
convince someone its somehow *right* to commit a terrorist act, they wont do
it. WHY do people become convinced its ok to convince terrorist acts? My
guess is that guilt and anger ABOUT poverty may play an important part. Rich
kids, or well-to-do middle class kids are also the most likely to embrace
Communism, in my experience. Thats not because they're rich, but because
they feel *guilty* about being rich, or so I surmise.

"Chad Irby" wrote :

...like talking "slow" neighbor children (not their own!) into wearing
bomb vests, paying them the equivalent of $22, and sending them off to
blow up Israelis at checkpoints with a potential reward of 72 virgins.

Desperate people don't do that. Evil people do that.

If someone keeps you under occupation for five decades and don't plan to
leave you do not give a **** about "fair play". You do everything what you
think it's necessary to kick ocupators out.

They are just using Irish methods.
And civilians of both side suffer because of Palestinian and Israeli state
terror....

Actually, a lot of the bombers are more or less middle class, and not
particularly poor.

They lost their freedom, their country is occupied, most of them are living
in refuge camps in pore condition, Israelis are taking their land,
bulldozing their houses...
What more do they need to lose ?

"As for the bombers themselves, Krueger says terrorist literature
indicates they are more likely to come from the ranks of middle-class
college students."

You need to reassess your opinions on this one.

So you won't to say that for middle-class Palestinians their country is not
occupied and they are not living under Israeli repression?

You will have to read F. William Engdahl "A Century of War" to understant
something...

In article ,
"Nicky" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote :

...like talking "slow" neighbor children (not their own!) into wearing
bomb vests, paying them the equivalent of $22, and sending them off to
blow up Israelis at checkpoints with a potential reward of 72 virgins.

Desperate people don't do that. Evil people do that.

If someone keeps you under occupation for five decades and don't plan to
leave you do not give a **** about "fair play". You do everything what you
think it's necessary to kick ocupators out.

They are just using Irish methods.

Really? How many times has the IRA strapped a bomb to Little Billy and
sent him into a British checkpoint?

And civilians of both side suffer because of Palestinian and Israeli state
terror....

But the Palestinians are the side that has, continually, screwed it up
by breaking cease-fires, and destroying the peace process.

Actually, a lot of the bombers are more or less middle class, and not
particularly poor.

They lost their freedom, their country is occupied, most of them are living
in refuge camps in pore condition, Israelis are taking their land,
bulldozing their houses...
What more do they need to lose ?

They stand to lose most of what they were asking for.

Blame the idiots who keep getting in the way of their cease-fires by
blowing up Israelis. The last cease-fire was leading to a workable
solution (the Palestinians were getting pretty much everything they
wanted until the bombs started going off).

"As for the bombers themselves, Krueger says terrorist literature
indicates they are more likely to come from the ranks of middle-class
college students."

You need to reassess your opinions on this one.

So you won't to say that for middle-class Palestinians their country is not
occupied and they are not living under Israeli repression?

I *will* say that they could have had the occupation ended several times
over hte last couple of decades if they agreed to not murder Israelis.

You will have to read F. William Engdahl "A Century of War" to understant
something...

You will have to read the Hamas main Web site before you'll understand
*anything*.

If the Palestinians want peace and their own country, the first thing
they need to do is isolate the assholes.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In "Nicky"
wrote:

They lost their freedom, their country is occupied, most of them are
living in refuge camps in pore condition,

.... because 50 years ago they backed the wrong side in an insane attempt
to drive the Israelis into the sea. And, every time they've been given the
chance, they've backed that losing side again.

And, they've lost a little more each time.

You'd think by now they'd have figured out what they're doing wrong.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN