Is the 787 a failure ?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:23:17 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:


The conventional Batteries are sometimes called Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries but they are actually AGM batteries.

Modern passenger aircraft normally use Nickel Cadmium batteries

Why havent they converted over to NmH?

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:23:17 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:


The conventional Batteries are sometimes called Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries but they are actually AGM batteries.

Modern passenger aircraft normally use Nickel Cadmium batteries

Why havent they converted over to NmH?

They have a relatively high self discharge rate and can lose
up to 20% of the energy stored in the first 24 hours. This is
acceptable for hybrid vehicles where the battery is primarily a
temporary buffer to capture the energy from regenerative
braking but not good for a system intended to initiate an
aircraft startup sequence after a week in the hangar.

Keith

On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 12:40:50 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:23:17 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:


The conventional Batteries are sometimes called Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries but they are actually AGM batteries.

Modern passenger aircraft normally use Nickel Cadmium batteries

Why havent they converted over to NmH?

They have a relatively high self discharge rate and can lose
up to 20% of the energy stored in the first 24 hours. This is
acceptable for hybrid vehicles where the battery is primarily a
temporary buffer to capture the energy from regenerative
braking but not good for a system intended to initiate an
aircraft startup sequence after a week in the hangar.

Keith

Thats not true anymore. Since Sanyo developed the Enerloop NiMH
battery..they are being shipped charged from the factories. All the
makers are using the new tech and have been doing so for at least 3
yrs. Ive got NiMH batteries that I only need to put on the charger
ever 6 months, just to top them off.

Gunner

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 12:40:50 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:23:17 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:


The conventional Batteries are sometimes called Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries but they are actually AGM batteries.

Modern passenger aircraft normally use Nickel Cadmium batteries

Why havent they converted over to NmH?

They have a relatively high self discharge rate and can lose
up to 20% of the energy stored in the first 24 hours. This is
acceptable for hybrid vehicles where the battery is primarily a
temporary buffer to capture the energy from regenerative
braking but not good for a system intended to initiate an
aircraft startup sequence after a week in the hangar.

Keith

Thats not true anymore. Since Sanyo developed the Enerloop NiMH
battery..they are being shipped charged from the factories. All the
makers are using the new tech and have been doing so for at least 3
yrs. Ive got NiMH batteries that I only need to put on the charger
ever 6 months, just to top them off.

Gunner

Trouble is they are not available in the size or capacity to be used
in an electric vehicle, last time I checked the largest was a D size.

Keith

On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:57:55 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 12:40:50 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:23:17 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:


The conventional Batteries are sometimes called Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries but they are actually AGM batteries.

Modern passenger aircraft normally use Nickel Cadmium batteries

Why havent they converted over to NmH?

They have a relatively high self discharge rate and can lose
up to 20% of the energy stored in the first 24 hours. This is
acceptable for hybrid vehicles where the battery is primarily a
temporary buffer to capture the energy from regenerative
braking but not good for a system intended to initiate an
aircraft startup sequence after a week in the hangar.

Keith

Thats not true anymore. Since Sanyo developed the Enerloop NiMH
battery..they are being shipped charged from the factories. All the
makers are using the new tech and have been doing so for at least 3
yrs. Ive got NiMH batteries that I only need to put on the charger
ever 6 months, just to top them off.

Gunner

Trouble is they are not available in the size or capacity to be used
in an electric vehicle, last time I checked the largest was a D size.

Keith

The Tesla Roadster has 6,831 lithium-ion cells, and each one is
between the size of a AA and a C in diameter, but a little longer than
either.

An AA is 14.5 mm x 50.5 mm. The 18650 Form Factor cells used in the
Tesla are 18.6 mm x 65.2 mm.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:57:55 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 12:40:50 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:23:17 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:


The conventional Batteries are sometimes called Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries but they are actually AGM batteries.

Modern passenger aircraft normally use Nickel Cadmium batteries

Why havent they converted over to NmH?

They have a relatively high self discharge rate and can lose
up to 20% of the energy stored in the first 24 hours. This is
acceptable for hybrid vehicles where the battery is primarily a
temporary buffer to capture the energy from regenerative
braking but not good for a system intended to initiate an
aircraft startup sequence after a week in the hangar.

Keith

Thats not true anymore. Since Sanyo developed the Enerloop NiMH
battery..they are being shipped charged from the factories. All the
makers are using the new tech and have been doing so for at least 3
yrs. Ive got NiMH batteries that I only need to put on the charger
ever 6 months, just to top them off.

Gunner

Trouble is they are not available in the size or capacity to be used
in an electric vehicle, last time I checked the largest was a D size.

Keith

The Tesla Roadster has 6,831 lithium-ion cells, and each one is
between the size of a AA and a C in diameter, but a little longer than
either.

An AA is 14.5 mm x 50.5 mm. The 18650 Form Factor cells used in the
Tesla are 18.6 mm x 65.2 mm.

And a Tesla battery costs between $24,000 and $40,000.

The Toyota list price for the Prius battery is $2,299 but aftermarket
battery costs start around $1,800

Keith


Keith

"Keith W" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:57:55 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

The Tesla Roadster has 6,831 lithium-ion cells, and each one is
between the size of a AA and a C in diameter, but a little longer
than
either.

An AA is 14.5 mm x 50.5 mm. The 18650 Form Factor cells used in the
Tesla are 18.6 mm x 65.2 mm.

And a Tesla battery costs between $24,000 and $40,000.

The Toyota list price for the Prius battery is $2,299 but
aftermarket
battery costs start around $1,800

Keith

This is a typical price if you want a few to experiment:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultrafire-1865.../dp/B006QQ27BW
A voltage-and-current controlled lab power supply will recharge them
nicely. My 18650 battery holder is a small plastic box with brass
screws threaded into the ends as adjustable terminals
jsw

On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:57:55 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 12:40:50 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:

GunnerAsch wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:23:17 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:


The conventional Batteries are sometimes called Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries but they are actually AGM batteries.

Modern passenger aircraft normally use Nickel Cadmium batteries

Why havent they converted over to NmH?

They have a relatively high self discharge rate and can lose
up to 20% of the energy stored in the first 24 hours. This is
acceptable for hybrid vehicles where the battery is primarily a
temporary buffer to capture the energy from regenerative
braking but not good for a system intended to initiate an
aircraft startup sequence after a week in the hangar.

Keith

Thats not true anymore. Since Sanyo developed the Enerloop NiMH
battery..they are being shipped charged from the factories. All the
makers are using the new tech and have been doing so for at least 3
yrs. Ive got NiMH batteries that I only need to put on the charger
ever 6 months, just to top them off.

Gunner

Trouble is they are not available in the size or capacity to be used
in an electric vehicle, last time I checked the largest was a D size.

Keith

D batteries are what they use in some of the electric vehicles as I
recall. Some 300 of them

Or was it 3000?

Gunner

"GunnerAsch" wrote in message
...

D batteries are what they use in some of the electric vehicles as I
recall. Some 300 of them

Or was it 3000?

Gunner


http://www.insightcentral.net/encycl...enbattery.html

On 3/22/2013 3:00 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"GunnerAsch" wrote in message
...

D batteries are what they use in some of the electric vehicles as I
recall. Some 300 of them

Or was it 3000?

Gunner


http://www.insightcentral.net/encycl...enbattery.html




You believe everything you read? Here is a quote from your very own Cite:

"Its operating temperature range is -30C degrees ~ +60C degrees."

I can tell you (but you won't listen) that if you operate that battery
at anywhere near 10 degree or less in F, well above the -30C rating, you
will be damaging your battery on a daily basis. This is why Tesla
includes a battery heating blanket and an Air Conditioner for it's
battery compartment. Otherwise, you have cells that are going to be
damaged until, one day, you won't be able to get to the local quick stop
and back.

Daryl