IDF-Apache firing missiles on 67yr old civilian in wheelchair- at Sabra mosque in Gaza...

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:03:36 GMT, Charles Gray wrote:

I'm more interested in the big middle finger this seems to have sent
the US way-- Sharon really seems intent on proving that he is not
beholden in any way shape or form to U.S. preassure

Here's another view on what this killing is all about:
http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2004/03/AngeringthePalestinians.shtml

In summary, wall off the insurgents, kill off the leaders, let them fight
and murder themselves as each group tries to establish authority.

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

In article ,
Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
K. A. Cannon wrote:

What ever happened to peaceful civil disobedience protests?
What the **** would Israel do if the Palestinians ever get a Martin
Luther King?

They'd probably get to bury him after Hamas kills him.

After observing this situation for a while I agree that the most
effective way for the Palestinians to get Isreal to give them more of
what they demand is to go peacenik. At the begining of Clancy's book
"Sum of all Fears" he has the Palestinians doing this. If Isreal failed
to get on the brakes fast enough and tone down their side of the
dispute, world opinion would quickly swing against them. TV footage of
Palestinians being hurt or killed by Isreali bulldozers or tanks would
be far more helpful to their cause then marterdom.

The Hamas leaders probably know this but the strugle gives them an
important role in their power structure and continuing the strugle for
as long as they can milk it. Fighting Isreal gives them power, beating
Isreal will take away their power. The rhetoric they use to stir up the
crowds is just a convenient tool to manipulate the situation.

By now, the leaders of Isreal must realize that this is the true
situation. Their population is being used as bomber fodder for the
internal power struggle between Hamas and the other factions in the
occupied areas. This strugle also keeps much of the rest of the middle
east concentrating on places other than their own countries. The
"Opression" of the Palestinians by the Isrealies distracts them from
their own bananna republic existance.

Knowing that Hamas, or its replacement must keep fighting to maintain
their own internal roles, Isreal can use the continued fighting as an
excuse to continually expel more Palestinians from the west bank and
Gaza until isreal expels them all and settles all the disputed areas
with Isrealies. Hamas' fighting only helps to speed the process.

I wonder if the rest of the Palestinians will ever figure this out?

--
Dana Miller

In article ,
Charles Gray wrote:

The isreali Palestinian conflict seems to have one main theme--
whenever one side is seriouly ready to make a deal, the other decides
it doesnt' want to. It's been more obvious on the Palestinian side,
but the Isreali's have also missed many chances to bolster the
moderates (back when such a thing existed).

Mostly because every time the peace process gets started, one side or
the other sends in suicide bombers.

Oh, wait, that's just the *one* side.

If the Palestinians ever wanted to make a deal, they'd shut down Hamas
and related groups. They don't.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
Dana Miller wrote:

Knowing that Hamas, or its replacement must keep fighting to maintain
their own internal roles, Isreal can use the continued fighting as an
excuse to continually expel more Palestinians from the west bank and
Gaza until isreal expels them all and settles all the disputed areas
with Isrealies. Hamas' fighting only helps to speed the process.

Considering that "speeding the process" of expulsion has, over the last
thirty-seven year, resulted in about four times as many Palestinians, I
don't think that's the issue.

The number of Palestinians that have been expelled is a drop in the
bucket compared to the number that have moved in.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 04:08:51 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
Charles Gray wrote:

The isreali Palestinian conflict seems to have one main theme--
whenever one side is seriouly ready to make a deal, the other decides
it doesnt' want to. It's been more obvious on the Palestinian side,
but the Isreali's have also missed many chances to bolster the
moderates (back when such a thing existed).

Mostly because every time the peace process gets started, one side or
the other sends in suicide bombers.

Oh, wait, that's just the *one* side.

If the Palestinians ever wanted to make a deal, they'd shut down Hamas
and related groups. They don't.


Or one side decides to play "Kick out the injun" with a new
settlement, or expansion of one or two, or the settlers go off on a
spree of beating up Palestinians.
Curiously, the U.S. media seldom reports those incidents...

In article ,
Charles Gray wrote:

Or one side decides to play "Kick out the injun" with a new
settlement, or expansion of one or two, or the settlers go off on a
spree of beating up Palestinians.
Curiously, the U.S. media seldom reports those incidents...

Really? I see it covered all over the place whenever that sort of thing
happens.

Oddly enough, there was damned little coverage of this recent round of
dismantling settlements and dragging the settlers back.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Could someone please tell me what missiles were used to kill Sheikh
Ahmed Yassin?

I'm thinking that the Israelis fired Hydra-70 rockets at him and his
handlers. I can't believe that they would have used Hellfires.

Thanks.

wrote in message
news:_ql8c.3159$%w2.1454@clgrps13...
In us.military.army Ragnar wrote:

Those guys NEVER
do the suicide dance - they convince other people to do it.

Little convincing is necessary when you've had your arms broken by Israeli
soldiers at age 14, seen your brother kidnapped, held, and tortured,
watched
your sister shot by a sniper, and then had your house bulldozed.

So all of the suicide bombers had that happen to them? No. Each bomber has
their own motivations and circumstances.


I'm a fairly peacefuly person, but if a party did that to me and mine,
I'd pull out all of the stops to hurt he and his - I don't think many of
us
would be much different.

And your scenario only works for a limited number of bombers. The others
are convinced by people like wheelchair man to do the suicide dance.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:14:05 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
Charles Gray wrote:

Or one side decides to play "Kick out the injun" with a new
settlement, or expansion of one or two, or the settlers go off on a
spree of beating up Palestinians.
Curiously, the U.S. media seldom reports those incidents...

Really? I see it covered all over the place whenever that sort of thing
happens.

Oddly enough, there was damned little coverage of this recent round of
dismantling settlements and dragging the settlers back.

I actually wasn't aware that there had been a new round-- were they
large settlments or the unapproved settlements that had popped up a
few years back.
Next to the suicide bombings, the Settlemetns are some of the
biggest problems around-- I wonder if Likud expected this when they
started the big push in the 1980's, or if it was more a "reward people
who will support us things".
One question I haven't been able to find any answers, is that
presuming the Isreali government dismantles ALL settlements next week,
can they afford to compensate the settlers? You can talk all day
about them being illegal, but the people would still have to have
housing and such provided them, at government expense, and I don't
know if the Isreali economy could currently handle that expense.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote :

The Taliban didnt EXIST when the Soviets were around. It emerged as a
movement in 1994, several years after the USSR had ceased to exist
let alone occupy Afghanistan.

They only had a different name.
Mudjahedins, and then they were called freedom fighters :-)