Hot Spark Ignition

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy Renegade.
If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ---- full
advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem right,
does it?

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

WoW....
Here's a piece of solid engineering data
we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? g

Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45 deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?
2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

P.S.
Purchased that T-Craft prop yet?

If you think that prop is expensive...
Write a check for two of Klaus's spark boxes.
Better yet, try again having great fun with a credit card.

FWIW --
I'm into cost benefit ratios that benefit ME,
not the seller of a 'better' mouse trap.

In the marketplace....
The magneto remains a very intelligent
and viable choice for most GA missions.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy
Renegade.
If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ----
full
advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem
right,
does it?

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.


WoW....
Here's a piece of solid engineering data
we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?

Engine experts will tell you that the Continental IO-360 has a primitive
ignition system and an outmoded low-pressure induction. It's a great
engine. It just needs some tweaking. On the other hand I may leave mine
stock. I have flown an assbuster or two before and at my age no longer
want to push the envelopes. I'll let the young whippersnappers do that.


Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? g

You can be sure they've been playing, experimenting with something like
Unison's Lasar in their skunkworks wing.


Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45
deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?

Yeah, but if you've seen how his ignition will shoot a hot spark across an
..040 gap and fire fouled plugs a mag can't budge, you'd be sold.

2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

Hell, no.

Klaus's ignition works. So does the Electroair. This is
rec.aviation.experimental. Be in it.

Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
quicker.

I know at least 2 A&P's who are fascinated with auto engines in aeroplanes.
One is building up a Subaru at the time for his airplane; another is
building a Piet which he's gonna put a flathead Ford engine in. We got an
A&P at Rutherfordton who thinks Franklin engines are great and has a
Franklin in his Rallye. Isn't a Franklin an auto engine?

We have 2 builders in our club putting those diminutive 30-hp Continental
gpu engines in their Mini-Max airplanes. They should be using VW engines
instead.


P.S.
Purchased that T-Craft prop yet?

I'm balking at $2250. That's about $500 more than for a brand-new prop for
an O-320. It defies logic. I already have 2 Sensenich woodies, one for
climb and one for cruise. The cruiser hangs on the wall. I'd buy a 1B90
7445 for $1800. McCauley acts like it doesn't even want to manufacture
aluminum props for the small engines any more. So does Sensenich.


If you think that prop is expensive...
Write a check for two of Klaus's spark boxes.
Better yet, try again having great fun with a credit card.

Yeah, he's pricey, so I may try my friend's setup, or Electroair, or the
Continental version of Lasar. You just go by once, you know.


FWIW --
I'm into cost benefit ratios that benefit ME,
not the seller of a 'better' mouse trap.

In the marketplace....
The magneto remains a very intelligent
and viable choice for most GA missions.

Maybe I'll stay with those good ol' S6LN-25's set at a droll 20 deg. btdc.
One of them throws a shower of sparks, but only for a second or two.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

Over 51 now. Hasn't a year ticked over?

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:52:11 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.


WoW....
Here's a piece of solid engineering data
we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?

What your reply tells me is --
until you are more engineer than lawyer...
lawyers know jack **** about advance
or timing... except as it applies to collecting
monies from clients and adversaries.

Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? g

You can be sure they've been playing, experimenting with something like
Unison's Lasar in their skunkworks wing.

SO?

Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45
deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?

Yeah, but if you've seen how his ignition will shoot a hot spark across an
.040 gap and fire fouled plugs a mag can't budge, you'd be sold.

I am sold.
I'm just not gonna write an outrageous check for an
upgrade that is not required and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED
by my current airworthy application.

You may be a dumb **** that just gotta have the latest
and greatest to stay ahead of the Jones's. I *do not*.

2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

Hell, no.

Klaus's ignition works.
So does the Electroair.

So do magnetos... at a far, far lesser price.

This is rec.aviation.experimental. Be in it.

Quit the cheap shots and condescending horse****. OK?
I've was in experimental aviation before you got out of diapers.

BTW, this is...... rec.aviation.homebuilt ---
Does anybody that takes issue with me know where they're at?

Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
quicker.

Let the spin stop for a moment.

Give me some hard numbers that I can take to the bank.
My calculator sez...it will take me a gazillions years to
recoup an investment in any upgrade priced like Klaus's
at the current price of auto fuel and the hours I fly per year.

Figure this, too....
When a Klaus unit drops dead and I can't find Klaus or I'm
cross country and need to get home what do I do? Buy
a standard magneto to get home and then mail the offending
high priced Klaus unit to the Republik of Kalifonia for service?
I'll pass, thank you.

As an advocate...
you ain't **** until you part with your cold hard cash for the
above product. Until you do, your call for me to join in
rec.aviation.experimental? is as hollow and empty as your
friggin' head. I own and fly experimental now and began it
with a Fly Baby in the early '60's and belonged to the EAA
when Rockford was the cool place to go.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?


What your reply tells me is --
until you are more engineer than lawyer...
lawyers know jack **** about advance
or timing... except as it applies to collecting
monies from clients and adversaries.

This reminds me of a conversation I witnessed between a sales guy and a
lawyer. The lawyer worked for a large firm on K street. He was in
charge of technology on a couple of really, really large cases which
involved the preparation and exchange of millions of pages of
information. The sales guy (a friend of mine for some years) had sold
the firm on a particular method of handling the documents
electronically. Things hadn't been going well. (In fact, that's why
the sales guy called my company in. We had, on a couple of previous
occasions, cleaned up the mess made by his company.) During a misguided
effort to "bond" with the lawyer, the following exchange occurred:

SG: Law fascinates me.
Lawyer: Hmmm.
SG: I always wished I had become a lawyer.
Lawyer: Hmmm.
SG: My father is a lawyer. And a diplomat. My sister is a lawyer. My
grandfather was a lawyer. It's really ironic that I'm not. I mean,
I've been surrounded by it all my life, and I've been influenced by so
many people, all lawyers. I can't really think of any better heritage
than to come from a long line of lawyers.
Lawyer: Is that so? You feel that being brought up around all those
lawyers made you a better person?
SG: Oh, absolutely. In subtle and not so subtle ways.
Lawyer: Yeah, well everybody in my family was an auto mechanic. I think
I f**ked up.

snip

I am sold.
I'm just not gonna write an outrageous check for an
upgrade that is not required and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED
by my current airworthy application.

snip

Klaus's ignition works.
So does the Electroair.


So do magnetos... at a far, far lesser price.


snip
Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
quicker.


Let the spin stop for a moment.

Give me some hard numbers that I can take to the bank.
My calculator sez...it will take me a gazillions years to
recoup an investment in any upgrade priced like Klaus's
at the current price of auto fuel and the hours I fly per year.

Figure this, too....
When a Klaus unit drops dead and I can't find Klaus or I'm
cross country and need to get home what do I do? Buy
a standard magneto to get home and then mail the offending
high priced Klaus unit to the Republik of Kalifonia for service?
I'll pass, thank you.
snip

Some good points on both sides. The new stuff is great; the old stuff
is adequate to the purpose. The new stuff doesn't have decades of
provable success under its proverbial belt. But the old stuff doesn't
make use of anything we've learned in those same decades. Great
discussion, ****ing aside.

Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of years
I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you, or did you get
touchy? I'll go back and read the archives when I have time, but for
now, I'm just happy to have enough time to check in again.

Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious" Sego

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:31:38 GMT, Ben Sego
wrote:

Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of years
I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you,

Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

beaming

Thanx for the back handed compliment, Ben Dover.
When you have time, please funrish your list of "everybody".
I'm sure it's a hoot and is a very fine list of all those that
have distinguished themselves both with credentials and
accomplishments we both admire in the field of aviation.

P.S.
Your slipping...
You didn't ask if I quit beating my wife yet.

Also..
This thread is for Hot Spark Ignition.
Got anything to add that's on topic?


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years tolerating unsuccessful nit****s

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
beaming

Thanx for the back handed compliment, Ben Dover.
You're welcome, Mr. Urban.
When you have time, please funrish your list of "everybody".
Ah well, see that's where I'll have to go digging through the archives.
I don't really look forward to that. I used to be here (lurking,
occasionally posting) a lot, but then work and family issues took me
away from it. After a hiatus, I started visiting again, just after Tony
Pucillo died. That bothered me more than I would have thought such an
event might. I didn't know him like a lot of you did, having never been
sued by certain esteemed individuals, but Tony and I traded posts and
e-mails. So, after reading about his untimely passing, I didn't come
back for a while.

Then,I looked in a bit ago and read the message about Warren. I stayed
away for a couple more weeks.

Now, I'm by-God determined to stick it out. But I must admit that I'm a
bit worried that when I read the archives I'll find out that someone
else I "knew" died.

snip

Also..
This thread is for Hot Spark Ignition.
Got anything to add that's on topic?

Actually, I do, but now that I've rambled on about other things, I don't
have time to type it. I have to go pick up my kid from day care,
because Mom is off helping the her company help the ATF. Maybe, if I
can fit it in, I'll say something on topic later.

B.S.

Ben Sego wrote:

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
beaming

Thanx for the back handed compliment, Ben Dover.
You're welcome, Mr. Urban.
When you have time, please funrish your list of "everybody".
Ah well, see that's where I'll have to go digging through the archives.
I don't really look forward to that. I used to be here (lurking,
occasionally posting) a lot, but then work and family issues took me
away from it.

B.S.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What gives, BS?
Perhaps I'm reading you all wrong, but...

You keep insisting you have little precious time
for the r.a.h. group but yet insist on making me
the 'object of your affection' now and it looks like
into the future... now that you are "back".

I really don't give a rat's ass about you digging for
dirt about me in the archives and I doubt that anyone
else does, either. Why you should return as a man
on a mission gunning for me or anyone puts you in
a sad class all by yourself and has no place in this
newsgroup.

Perhaps you should take a deep breath, examine
your priorities and read what Holger has recently
written. If you continue to shadow me, I believe you
may find it a less than pleasant or rewarding experience.
This is rec.aviation.homebuilt, not wreck.bob.urban.
If you carry through with what is beginning to look
like personal harassment of me, I can assure you,
your ISP will receive a copy of every nuance you
utter in this group.

Have a nice day and attempt to enjoy some
healthy dialog with the others, if you can.


Barnyard BOb --
The more people I meet,
the more I love my dog
and George Carlin humor.

snipped
Then,I looked in a bit ago and read the message about Warren. I stayed
away for a couple more weeks.


Which one was that? And why would it keep you away?

And while I am asking, why are some people surprised when others take offense
at being called names or are otherwise insulted or been rude to?

I have to believe it is a clash of cultures.
I am a Southener. Taught manners and the necessity of being civil in order to
live in peace with my fellow man. I would never call a stranger a vulgar name,
comment on his wife or PU truck etc. Unless, of course, I was ready to fight
him. When I give a person my word, I am honor bound by it. More so than a piece
of paper I might sign.
People from other parts of the country have a different take on life, it seems.

I stand when a woman enters the room, take off my hat/cap when in an elevator
with women aboard whereas in Chicago and some other places I have lived, to
give up your seat to a woman on the El or bus seems to be a sign of weakness.

Straight off the farm and off to Bainbridge MD Naval Bootcamp, 1944, I was
shocked to hear a NY type fellow call a lanky, rawbone fellow from Arkansas,
IIRC, a dumb HB or some such and not at all surprised when the Rebel decked
him. The Yankee was surprised, tho. After all, he had talked that way all his
life and for someone to take offense was unheard of where he came from.
I realize we are all still feeling our way in this new medium of communicating
and sooner or later we will all start conforming to the same standard.
My generation of the Old South will give way to others more tolerant than I and
the same will happen in other parts of the country. In the meantime, if you
insult me or call me names, I will just shake my head and try to smile. But I
cannot help thinking of you as an enemy from then on..
I wish you luck with your project, Mr Sego, and if I can help in any way, eMail
or post here.

Warren

On 17 Nov 2003 08:31 AM, Ben Sego posted the following:

Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of
years I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you, or did
you get touchy? I'll go back and read the archives when I have time,
but for now, I'm just happy to have enough time to check in again.

Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious" Sego

All of the above. At this point who cast the first stone is less
important to the discussion than the matter of who has the biggest pair.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

From the auto engine and motorcycle engine builders, and experimenters,
great benefits for the aircraft engine: nikasil cylinders; lightweight
starters, generators and alternators; carbon
fiber and composite propellers; modern fuel injection systems; Ellison TB
injector
and other variable venturi carbs;
ignition boxes by Lightspeed and Electroair; porting, flow-matching, and
balancing,

auto engines with good reps: subaru, vw, mazda rotary, bmw mcy engines,
suzuki sprint 3-cylinder

Engines I'm familiar with and don't like in airplanes: Franklin, Corvair,
any 2-stroke, 65-horse Lycoming (which never even made 60 horses in its best
day below sea level and could be best used as a boat anchor); Jabiru;
Revmaster; Trabant;
GO-300; Tigre (junk); Menasco (junk)

Fascinating new developments: diesel engines, like the Thielert and Zoche.

Other great engines: Ranger inline, Continental and Lycoming radials,
Vedeneyev, P&W, Jacobs (shaky Jake), Szekely, Warner, Wright, etc.

Favorite engine: Rolls-Royce Merlin which powered the P-51 Mustang:
plenty of horsepower, liquid cooled, supercharged, very efficient for its
time, still winning, at Reno

This was my outline but I had to git this a. m. I wanted to rant a little
about having to pay such high prices for certified props when you can buy a
s-o-t-a Warp Drive for $600. Now wouldn't that pull your little
Taylorcraft along at a zippy pace? They're doing it legally --- hanging
carbon fiber propellers on A-65's and C-85's pulling certified aircraft ---
in Canada and in other countries but in the USA, oooo noooooooooo, can't
stand the progress.


"- Barnyard BOb -" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:52:11 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.