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"David Hartung" wrote in
: "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... Chad Irby wrote in news ![]() In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Why is that Kerry's statements to congress in 1971 are of critical importance, but Bush AWOL/Desertion/HRP failure/failure to show up for a drug test all "ancient history"? Because there are documents and witnesses to *support* the Kerry story, but all of the documents and witnesses *disprove* the Bush story. Well, in fairness, there is a dentist who can corroborate Bush's presence at Danelly at least one day in that year. Unfortunately, Bush's transfer to Dannelly was rejected. Just out of curiosity, what military or Guard experience do you have? I can see it now: "You were never in the guard so you are not allowed to discuss this." I was in the VA for several years. Does that count? Not that I care either way, but what's your experience? -- "We gave Hussein a chance to allow inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in." - George WMD. Bush, lying on July 14, 2003. |
#2
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![]() "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... "David Hartung" wrote in : "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... Chad Irby wrote in news ![]() In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Why is that Kerry's statements to congress in 1971 are of critical importance, but Bush AWOL/Desertion/HRP failure/failure to show up for a drug test all "ancient history"? Because there are documents and witnesses to *support* the Kerry story, but all of the documents and witnesses *disprove* the Bush story. Well, in fairness, there is a dentist who can corroborate Bush's presence at Danelly at least one day in that year. Unfortunately, Bush's transfer to Dannelly was rejected. Just out of curiosity, what military or Guard experience do you have? I can see it now: "You were never in the guard so you are not allowed to discuss this." I was in the VA for several years. Does that count? Not that I care either way, but what's your experience? My experience is 11 years in the USAF, but it seems to me that one who has not served in any branch of the military, is in no position to tell a Guardsman how the Guard works. |
#3
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"David Hartung" wrote in
: "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... "David Hartung" wrote in : "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... Chad Irby wrote in news ![]() In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Why is that Kerry's statements to congress in 1971 are of critical importance, but Bush AWOL/Desertion/HRP failure/failure to show up for a drug test all "ancient history"? Because there are documents and witnesses to *support* the Kerry story, but all of the documents and witnesses *disprove* the Bush story. Well, in fairness, there is a dentist who can corroborate Bush's presence at Danelly at least one day in that year. Unfortunately, Bush's transfer to Dannelly was rejected. Just out of curiosity, what military or Guard experience do you have? I can see it now: "You were never in the guard so you are not allowed to discuss this." I was in the VA for several years. Does that count? Not that I care either way, but what's your experience? My experience is 11 years in the USAF, but it seems to me that one who has not served in any branch of the military, is in no position to tell a Guardsman how the Guard works. What do I win for accurately predicting your pathetic weasle? Are you gay? Are you a virologist? You've pontificated quite a bit on these two subjects you know. Are you someone who is not gay that tells gays how they feel and act? Are you someone who has not studied virology (BTW, I am a microbiologist which includes virology) but feels like he's in a position to tell people who have studied virology how viriuses work? And let's not forget your grand theory of HIV epidemiology. Are you an epidemiologist? Do you live in Florida? Have you voted there? You certainly have had a lot to say about how voting works in Florida over the past few years. You don't have to serve in the guard to be able to read a transfer request denial from personel headquarters. Or are there hidden messages in it that you only learn how to decifer after you've served? http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc9.gif "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187 TAC recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." [signed] "William D. Harris, Jr. Lt Col. Pilot, Flt Intcp" "Jerry D. Killian, Lt. Col. Squadron Commander" Both signatures dated 2 May 1973 [50 weeks after the date Bush "cleared this base."] http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc5.gif "Application for Reserve Assignment, Bush, George W, 1sr Lt "TAG Texas "1. Application for Reserve Assignment for First Lieutenant Bush is returned. "2. A review of his Master Personel Record shows he has a Military Service Obligation until 26 May 1974. Under provisions of paragraph 30-6 n (4), AFM 35-3, an obligated Reservist can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve position only. Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air Reserve Squadron." signed by The Director of Personnel Resources on 24 May 1972. 9 days *after* Bush "cleared" his prior posting. Bush failed to return to his post in Texas for another 47 weeks after that. That is desertion of duty. You cannot spin it any other way. You can pull strings (if your Poppy) but you cannot change the fact that Bush's transfer request was denied and he still failed to return to his post for nearly a year. -- "We gave Hussein a chance to allow inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in." - George WMD. Bush, lying on July 14, 2003. |
#4
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![]() "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... "David Hartung" wrote in : "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... "David Hartung" wrote in : "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... Chad Irby wrote in news ![]() In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Why is that Kerry's statements to congress in 1971 are of critical importance, but Bush AWOL/Desertion/HRP failure/failure to show up for a drug test all "ancient history"? Because there are documents and witnesses to *support* the Kerry story, but all of the documents and witnesses *disprove* the Bush story. Well, in fairness, there is a dentist who can corroborate Bush's presence at Danelly at least one day in that year. Unfortunately, Bush's transfer to Dannelly was rejected. Just out of curiosity, what military or Guard experience do you have? I can see it now: "You were never in the guard so you are not allowed to discuss this." I was in the VA for several years. Does that count? Not that I care either way, but what's your experience? My experience is 11 years in the USAF, but it seems to me that one who has not served in any branch of the military, is in no position to tell a Guardsman how the Guard works. What do I win for accurately predicting your pathetic weasle? Are you gay? Are you a virologist? You've pontificated quite a bit on these two subjects you know. Are you someone who is not gay that tells gays how they feel and act? Are you someone who has not studied virology (BTW, I am a microbiologist which includes virology) but feels like he's in a position to tell people who have studied virology how viriuses work? Are you a bug chaser, Republican Double Standard troll? |
#5
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![]() "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... "David Hartung" wrote in : My experience is 11 years in the USAF, but it seems to me that one who has not served in any branch of the military, is in no position to tell a Guardsman how the Guard works. What do I win for accurately predicting your pathetic weasle? Are you gay? Are you a virologist? You've pontificated quite a bit on these two subjects you know. Are you someone who is not gay that tells gays how they feel and act? Are you someone who has not studied virology (BTW, I am a microbiologist which includes virology) but feels like he's in a position to tell people who have studied virology how viriuses work? And let's not forget your grand theory of HIV epidemiology. Are you an epidemiologist? Do you live in Florida? Have you voted there? You certainly have had a lot to say about how voting works in Florida over the past few years. You don't have to serve in the guard to be able to read a transfer request denial from personel headquarters. Or are there hidden messages in it that you only learn how to decifer after you've served? It is obvious that you will reject anything which counters your preconceived opinion, but the simple fact is, one who is in the Guard is much more qualified to speak to the operation of the Guard than one who has not. I never served. I do not pretend to know everything about how the Guard works, except that it was occasionally necessary for My Dad to miss drills, this was no problem, he would make them up later. The concept of equivalent training is not one which I am familiar with, but it does stand to reason that there would be provisions for Guardsmen to do such, after all, they all had civilian jobs. One more point, there has been at least one individual who served with George Bush in the Texas Guard, and according to this individual, Bush did nothing wrong. My suggestion to you fools who keep beating this dead horse would be to get a life. |
#6
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"David Hartung" wrote in
: "Republican Double Standard" wrote in message . 1.4... "David Hartung" wrote in : My experience is 11 years in the USAF, but it seems to me that one who has not served in any branch of the military, is in no position to tell a Guardsman how the Guard works. What do I win for accurately predicting your pathetic weasle? Are you gay? Are you a virologist? You've pontificated quite a bit on these two subjects you know. Are you someone who is not gay that tells gays how they feel and act? Are you someone who has not studied virology (BTW, I am a microbiologist which includes virology) but feels like he's in a position to tell people who have studied virology how viriuses work? And let's not forget your grand theory of HIV epidemiology. Are you an epidemiologist? Do you live in Florida? Have you voted there? You certainly have had a lot to say about how voting works in Florida over the past few years. You don't have to serve in the guard to be able to read a transfer request denial from personel headquarters. Or are there hidden messages in it that you only learn how to decifer after you've served? It is obvious that you will reject anything which counters your preconceived opinion, but the simple fact is, one who is in the Guard How could you possibly know? You have not offered anything that counters my notions - preconceived or otherwise. All I know is that every actual document I've seen clearly shows he asked for a transfer, it was denied, but he still didn't show up at Ellington for a year. He did show up one day at Dannelly to have his teeth examined. Other than that, there are only generalizations about whether he was paid (which proves nothing other than he was paid) and his discharge (which proves nothing because the two Washington guardsmen who failed their HRP were both honorably discharged). is much more qualified to speak to the operation of the Guard than one who has not. This is ludicrous. It's like saying a school child is more qualified to tell you how a school district functions than a superintendant who didn't attend that particular school district. I never served. I do not pretend to know everything about how the Guard works, except that it was occasionally necessary for My Dad to miss drills, this was no problem, he would make them up later. The concept of equivalent training is not one which I am familiar with, but it does stand to reason that there would be provisions for Guardsmen to do such, after all, they all had civilian jobs. My dad was in the Army. I suspect that if he had asked for a transfer from Fort Bragg to another base and had had that request denied but still failed to show up at Fort Bragg for 12 months, he would have been court martialled. But then, his daddy wasn't a congressman. One more point, there has been at least one individual who served with George Bush in the Texas Guard, and according to this individual, Bush did nothing wrong. My suggestion to you fools who keep beating this dead horse would be to get a life. This one individual you mention served with Bush in Texas from 70-71. Why would you think his statements have any bearing on Bush's service from 72-73? http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc9.gif "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187 TAC recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." [signed] "William D. Harris, Jr. Lt Col. Pilot, Flt Intcp" "Jerry D. Killian, Lt. Col. Squadron Commander" Both signatures dated 2 May 1973 [50 weeks after the date Bush "cleared this base."] http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc5.gif "Application for Reserve Assignment, Bush, George W, 1sr Lt "TAG Texas "1. Application for Reserve Assignment for First Lieutenant Bush is returned. "2. A review of his Master Personel Record shows he has a Military Service Obligation until 26 May 1974. Under provisions of paragraph 30-6 n (4), AFM 35-3, an obligated Reservist can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve position only. Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air Reserve Squadron." signed by The Director of Personnel Resources on 24 May 1972. 9 days *after* Bush "cleared" his prior posting. Bush failed to return to his post in Texas for another 47 weeks after that. That is desertion of duty. You cannot spin it any other way. You can pull strings (if your Poppy) but you cannot change the fact that Bush's transfer request was denied and he still failed to return to his post for nearly a year. -- "We gave Hussein a chance to allow inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in." - George WMD. Bush, lying on July 14, 2003. |
#7
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On 28 Mar 2004 15:15:40 GMT, Republican Double Standard
wrote: He did show up one day at Dannelly to have his teeth examined. That was Jan. 6, 1973? How about his shot records under polio it has a date of 73APR. No base given though. If this date isn't in his guard pay records maybe he is owed training time and back pay for 73APR? At most bases I have been at the dental clinic and the hospital were in separate buildings. You had to go to the hospital to get shots. I could see Bush missing his physical because he got lost on base and couldn't find the hospital, but he could find the dental clinic. Now the shot records prove he could also find his way to the hospital! |
#8
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which proves nothing because
the two Washington guardsmen who failed their HRP were both honorably discharged You are a clueless SOB aren't you? Removal from PRP (modern day equivelent of HRP) is non-punitive. You may be removed (temporary or permanent) from PRP due to illegal activity (drugs, DUI or generally any crime), but being removed in and of itself doesn't constitute illegal behavior. We had a guy in my missile squadron permenantly decertified for having a tremendous credit problem. It bordered on illegality, but he was never charged. Bottom line, he was removed from PRP, cross trained into communications (I think?) and was never worse the wear for it. You need to get a clue before you open your mouth, you're looking pretty foolish. This is ludicrous. It's like saying a school child is more qualified to tell you how a school district functions than a superintendant who didn't attend that particular school district. In your case, you are not nearly as knowledgeable as a school superintendant. Keeping with your anology, I'd say you're a person who once read about school. My dad was in the Army. I suspect that if he had asked for a transfer from Fort Bragg to another base and had had that request denied but still failed to show up at Fort Bragg for 12 months, he would have been court martialled. But then, his daddy wasn't a congressman. Your knowledge about how active duty works (although far from complicated) seems complete, but you need to stick to that aspect since you've no idea how the guard or reserves work. Don't feel bad. neither do I, the BUFF reserve guys I've played golf with confuse the hell out of me. Had a guy activated after 9-11, do a stint over Afghanistan, return to CONUS and then finish his activiation teaching ROTC at Colorado State Univ. Guard & reserve guys can do some interesting stuff. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
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