A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Military Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Flanker vs F-15



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 28th 04, 08:56 PM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"monkey" wrote in message
m...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:44:04 -0600, "Boomer"

wrote:

yes Flankers have a switch which over rides the FBW limits,

that's
the
only
way they can do the "Cobra" manuever.

Or you can simply apply an extra 33lb of stick force.

That is a lot, the F/A-18 breaks out at 20 lbs.

Not true - you are confusing this with aoa feedback in the stick above
20 alpha -to get more g than the programmed limiter (usually 7.5) you
must engage the paddle switch, which will then give you 33% more g.


I am refering to the force required to move the stick. My F-18 (AV6)

had a
swich on the left panel to cut out the FCS much like the MiG.


move the stick for what?


The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?


  #2  
Old March 29th 04, 01:14 AM
monkey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"monkey" wrote in message
m...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:44:04 -0600, "Boomer"

wrote:

yes Flankers have a switch which over rides the FBW limits,

that's
the
only
way they can do the "Cobra" manuever.

Or you can simply apply an extra 33lb of stick force.

That is a lot, the F/A-18 breaks out at 20 lbs.

Not true - you are confusing this with aoa feedback in the stick above
20 alpha -to get more g than the programmed limiter (usually 7.5) you
must engage the paddle switch, which will then give you 33% more g.

I am refering to the force required to move the stick. My F-18 (AV6)

had a
swich on the left panel to cut out the FCS much like the MiG.


move the stick for what?


The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?


I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.
  #3  
Old March 29th 04, 06:28 AM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
m...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:44:04 -0600, "Boomer"


wrote:

yes Flankers have a switch which over rides the FBW limits,

that's
the
only
way they can do the "Cobra" manuever.

Or you can simply apply an extra 33lb of stick force.

That is a lot, the F/A-18 breaks out at 20 lbs.

Not true - you are confusing this with aoa feedback in the stick

above
20 alpha -to get more g than the programmed limiter (usually 7.5)

you
must engage the paddle switch, which will then give you 33% more

g.

I am refering to the force required to move the stick. My F-18

(AV6) had a
swich on the left panel to cut out the FCS much like the MiG.

move the stick for what?


The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?


I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.


I take it you never flew the airplane.


  #4  
Old March 29th 04, 04:56 PM
monkey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
m...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:44:04 -0600, "Boomer"


wrote:

yes Flankers have a switch which over rides the FBW limits,

that's
the
only
way they can do the "Cobra" manuever.

Or you can simply apply an extra 33lb of stick force.

That is a lot, the F/A-18 breaks out at 20 lbs.

Not true - you are confusing this with aoa feedback in the stick

above
20 alpha -to get more g than the programmed limiter (usually 7.5)

you
must engage the paddle switch, which will then give you 33% more

g.

I am refering to the force required to move the stick. My F-18

(AV6) had a
swich on the left panel to cut out the FCS much like the MiG.

move the stick for what?

The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?


I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.


I take it you never flew the airplane.


you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails. Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.
  #5  
Old March 29th 04, 05:15 PM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...



The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.


I take it you never flew the airplane.


you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails.


Or when CAS is switched out. Which is the way an F-18 can do a cobra like a
Flanker.

Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.


I did however design the HARV simulator at NASA and I am well aware of how
an F/A-18 works. (first accurate F/A-18 simulator)


  #6  
Old March 30th 04, 03:06 AM
monkey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...



The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

I take it you never flew the airplane.


you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails.


Or when CAS is switched out. Which is the way an F-18 can do a cobra like a
Flanker.

Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.


I did however design the HARV simulator at NASA and I am well aware of how
an F/A-18 works. (first accurate F/A-18 simulator)


OK, now I see where you are coming from - academically. It's taken
awhile for me to see your viewpoint. Operationally, one never uses any
mode except for CAS - there's no need to unless it craps out or you
get battle damage resulting in it. Referring to the checklist, DEL ON,
MECH ON, FCS CAUT, AIL OFF, FC AIR DAT, FCS HOT, FLAPS OFF, FLAP
SCHED, R LIM OFF, RUD OFF are all considered EMERGENCY situations and
are dealt with as such. I guess the test pilot dudes might play around
with that sort of stuff, but never the line guys.
  #7  
Old March 30th 04, 03:20 AM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message

...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...



The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control

system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you

would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

I take it you never flew the airplane.

you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails.


Or when CAS is switched out. Which is the way an F-18 can do a cobra

like a
Flanker.

Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.


I did however design the HARV simulator at NASA and I am well aware of

how
an F/A-18 works. (first accurate F/A-18 simulator)


OK, now I see where you are coming from - academically. It's taken
awhile for me to see your viewpoint. Operationally, one never uses any
mode except for CAS - there's no need to unless it craps out or you
get battle damage resulting in it. Referring to the checklist, DEL ON,
MECH ON, FCS CAUT, AIL OFF, FC AIR DAT, FCS HOT, FLAPS OFF, FLAP
SCHED, R LIM OFF, RUD OFF are all considered EMERGENCY situations and
are dealt with as such. I guess the test pilot dudes might play around
with that sort of stuff, but never the line guys.


The line guys need to know the emergency procedure of breaking the stick out
in order to be safe. The fact that you are still disputing that seems odd
to me.


  #8  
Old March 30th 04, 04:11 AM
John Weiss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

I take it you never flew the airplane.


....and I take it you never flew an airplane.


  #9  
Old March 30th 04, 05:49 AM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

I take it you never flew the airplane.


...and I take it you never flew an airplane.


I flew the simulator, which puts me ahead of either of you WRT how the
operator inputs work. Monkey was playing a little game and got caught, but
I have never been one to believe pilots know how airplanes work. That would
be silly.

Of course these days the civil side of the system is beginning to drive out
operator ignorance. It is something that should have been done long ago.


  #10  
Old March 31st 04, 01:19 AM
monkey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"John Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

I take it you never flew the airplane.


...and I take it you never flew an airplane.


I flew the simulator, which puts me ahead of either of you WRT how the
operator inputs work. Monkey was playing a little game and got caught, but
I have never been one to believe pilots know how airplanes work. That would
be silly.

Of course these days the civil side of the system is beginning to drive out
operator ignorance. It is something that should have been done long ago.


You know what Tarver you are a dick - first of all I'm not playing any
games with you- I am who I say I am - not one of the things I've
posted about the hornet from a pilot perspective has been incorrect
(which by the way I can't say for you) I've yet to see any proof that
you were ever involved with airplanes at all. Oh yeah, by the way,
I've flown all sorts of sims from the old ones to the newest - and i
haven't seen one yet that truly duplicates the experience of flying a
jet, so don't go spewing crap like that - you'll be hard pressed to
find a fighter pilot anywhere who would say that flying a sim is no
substitute for real flying training. You're just going to **** off the
aviators out here because I don't know one who would say he completely
understands the Hornet FCS. But you know what, that's not our job -
ours is to put bombs on target on time, and that keeps us busy enough
without having to learn about stuff we don't need to know to get the
job done. Tarver I don't care what kind of "simulated" stuff you've
done in the sim...I'll be impressed when you strap on a real jet and
take it out on a trip..but by the amount of time you spend on the net
here I'll wager you don't get out of your cubicle enough to experience
the real world. You need to learn that the miltary aviation business
is a team effort...in my line of work not being a team player will get
you booted faster than anything else. You don't see me or any other
drivers spouting insults about support personnel, so perhaps you
should extend the same courtesy to those who operate the equipment you
(supposedly)support. Sorry to everyone else for the rant... I got into
this forum to enjoy discussion about our profession and share some
ideas, not to get involved in stuipd discussions with idiots who have
self esteem problems.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT-ish Su27 Flanker fans *might* enjoy... Andrew MacPherson Military Aviation 0 February 1st 04 11:33 AM
F-22 Comparison robert arndt Military Aviation 39 December 4th 03 04:25 PM
[New WebSite] Su-27 Flanker Benoit Military Aviation 0 November 11th 03 04:54 PM
Su-27SK(Upgraded), Su-27KUB & new Flanker book Thomas J. Paladino Jr. Military Aviation 6 July 28th 03 07:53 PM
RIAT Fairford Reviews John Cook Military Aviation 4 July 21st 03 07:36 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.