Florida Grand Prix

And, if everyone starts at the same time on a time-limited task, then they will all finish at the same time, so recovering everyone on the runway could be a challenge.

JC: Well, that happens anyway. A good point for high finishes.

I am not a big fan of the GP format. I'm one of the believers that the GP race is won (or lost) at the start.

JC: The IGC format is also won or lost at the start!


The magnitude of the win is masked by the simplified scoring system, so there is no incentive to go faster than just enough to beat second place.


JC: Absolutely. We're talking about changing the start time only, not 1000 point scoring. GP scoring there is also a huge incentive to do whatever it takes to beat the other guy by an inch.



I think GP is best suited as a marketing tool, not a racing tool and that it can and should be used for local contests, but not for National and WGC level competitions.


JC: Yes for the full GP. But we're talking about starting everyone at the same time, and keeping everything else the same. Including, turn area tasks, handicaps, regular start and finish geometry, etc. etc.

I don't understand how starting everyone at the same time but continuing to employ a MAT or TAT will make the day more exciting for the spectators or enjoyable for the contestants.

Neither of the above will be able to correlate finish time with the day's ranking. I was under the impression that the enjoyment of a Grand Prix was knowing at a glance what competitive position each contestant was in. IE, first one home wins. With contest tracking (especially as it matures) this could actually be interesting to spectators.

I have no beefs with the Regional Rules. However, I am interested in competing in a Grand Prix style event. If we are going to just start everyone at the same time and let them fly a MAT then I will review my pilot poll vote. One of the contests I flew had such poor CD radio performance I am not sure anyone could have known when the CD called the official start. I guess I will reread the pilot poll and make sure I voted correctly.

Lane
XF

In article ,
wrote:

I don't understand how starting everyone at the same time but continuing to
employ a MAT or TAT will make the day more exciting for the spectators or
enjoyable for the contestants.

Neither of the above will be able to correlate finish time with the day's
ranking. I was under the impression that the enjoyment of a Grand Prix was
knowing at a glance what competitive position each contestant was in. IE,
first one home wins. With contest tracking (especially as it matures) this
could actually be interesting to spectators.

I have no beefs with the Regional Rules. However, I am interested in
competing in a Grand Prix style event. If we are going to just start
everyone at the same time and let them fly a MAT then I will review my pilot
poll vote. One of the contests I flew had such poor CD radio performance I
am not sure anyone could have known when the CD called the official start. I
guess I will reread the pilot poll and make sure I voted correctly.

Lane
XF


I could not agree more! The beauty of the GP format (of which I was not
convinced before flying one this past weekend) is the sense of
immediacy. I think that is part of what is missing from MAT and AAT
tasks. You get to experience the results of your efforts in the moment.
Flying an assigned task with a GP start "concentrates the mind
wonderfully". I have had very few contests flights where I have
concentrated so hard on picking my path and flying with the utmost
efficiency. I know the others were doing the same. You could almost see
the little thought bubbles over each glider with each pilot thinking
"How do I get away from this SOB?".

The one word that sums up this little experiment in GP racing for me is
"satisfying". It was simpler, purer, more challenging, more immediately
gratifying. Let's keep it that way. No need to "gild the lily".

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Friday, October 4, 2013 11:02:30 PM UTC+2, WB wrote:

I could not agree more! The beauty of the GP format (of which I was not

convinced before flying one this past weekend) is the sense of

immediacy. I think that is part of what is missing from MAT and AAT

tasks. You get to experience the results of your efforts in the moment.

Flying an assigned task with a GP start "concentrates the mind

wonderfully". I have had very few contests flights where I have

concentrated so hard on picking my path and flying with the utmost

efficiency. I know the others were doing the same. You could almost see

the little thought bubbles over each glider with each pilot thinking

"How do I get away from this SOB?".



The one word that sums up this little experiment in GP racing for me is

"satisfying". It was simpler, purer, more challenging, more immediately

gratifying. Let's keep it that way. No need to "gild the lily".



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Guess what - there is an easy way to get the same effect under current rules in the US: fly speed tasks, and during the pre-start maneuvering find an follow someone who you think you need to beat but is as good or better than you (or better, several of those guys). Then start within a few minutes of him (them). Works like a charm at smaller local races - been doing it at ASA contests for years!

Kirk
66

Great debate all.

Please allow me to remind everyone that FSGP USA is intended to be a fun event. It is not competing with or calling US rules ugly. In large events (25+ gliders) or Nationals, it would probably not work safely. Perhaps one day an SSA sanctioned US GP Nationals would be a great way to qualify an American and a Canadian for the FAI GP World Championship! HINT! HINT! HINT!

It truly was fun (even though we had only 10 gliders racing (14 on site) in 3 classes, (2, 4, 4)) and if we get some weather in the future, it will be outstanding flying! Remember that all are welcome and that there are still plenty of spaces available! To sign up email Andy McQuigg at ash99eATyahooDOTcom. Please consider making a trip down and give it a go!

I wish to state that I have considerable respect for the US rules and the safety ideals the USRC are trying to protect (even though I have been a critic of some minor points at times). That said, I think the GP concept (with US finish or without) has tremendous potential (sanctioned or unsanctioned) to excite US pilots and make for some great, fun and exciting competitions.

For the record, I do think we are all capable of flying assigned tasks far more often than we do...and that AAT's are probably overused in contests (except for Sports class of course). Short MAT's are the worst! GP events would attract those who share my opinion for sure!

Please remember that this Florida Sailplane Grand Prix - USA event is all about fun. Its not trying to be anything more than that at this stage. Lets not beat it up too much!

For more info check the website he https://sites.google.com/site/sgpflusa/

Sean
F2/7T



On Saturday, October 5, 2013 7:40:08 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2013 11:02:30 PM UTC+2, WB wrote:



I could not agree more! The beauty of the GP format (of which I was not



convinced before flying one this past weekend) is the sense of



immediacy. I think that is part of what is missing from MAT and AAT



tasks. You get to experience the results of your efforts in the moment.



Flying an assigned task with a GP start "concentrates the mind



wonderfully". I have had very few contests flights where I have



concentrated so hard on picking my path and flying with the utmost



efficiency. I know the others were doing the same. You could almost see



the little thought bubbles over each glider with each pilot thinking



"How do I get away from this SOB?".







The one word that sums up this little experiment in GP racing for me is



"satisfying". It was simpler, purer, more challenging, more immediately



gratifying. Let's keep it that way. No need to "gild the lily".







--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---



Guess what - there is an easy way to get the same effect under current rules in the US: fly speed tasks, and during the pre-start maneuvering find an follow someone who you think you need to beat but is as good or better than you (or better, several of those guys). Then start within a few minutes of him (them). Works like a charm at smaller local races - been doing it at ASA contests for years!



Kirk

66

My wife and I visited SLGP for the Grand Prix Race last Sunday and enjoyed our visit very much. We walked the grid, watched the launch and spent a nice afternoon at the Gliderport in weather that couldn't have been much nicer.. We enjoyed a picnic lunch in the shade by the pool. Michelle took advantage of the wi-fi to get her school work done while I caught up with the news at Seminole Lake.

The best part for me was watching the first of the competitors return. It was one of the two Libelles in the race. My initial reaction was THIS IS GREAT. A guy with one of the oldest, lowest performance gliders in the field wins the race! The ultimate, Cinderella story...unfortunately it was not to be. I learned later that the gentleman flew the wrong course and did not win after all. But it sure was fun while it lasted!

I hope you keep the series going. Someday I'd like to participate.

Brian

Most of the winners talks I've heard and the few that I've given usually include the phrase "I got a good start".

JC: Yes for the full GP. But we're talking about starting everyone at the same time, and keeping everything else the same. Including, turn area tasks, handicaps, regular start and finish geometry, etc. etc.

Here is a link to the international rules (pdf): http://www.fai.org/downloads/igc/SGPrules_V5

As your GP rules evolve, it will be amusing to watch as they deviate from the rules used by the rest of the world. Again.

-Pat

As your GP rules evolve, it will be amusing to watch as they deviate from the rules used by the rest of the world. Again.

-Pat

Well, give me a little bit of a break. The point of IGC grand prix is to make something fun for spectators and media. The point of the Florida Grand Prix, and a possible attempt to do something under ssa rules, is to craft something fun and safe for the pilots. Different points may well justify different rules. If I wanted to run an IGC qualifying grand prix with 10 hot pilots, video cameras, sponsors, and excitement, I'd use IGC rules.

John Cohrane

Are you saying to make it safe we must avoid AT and use MATs or TATs?