Keep your hand off the release handle during aero tows!

Hi Justin,

I suspect that this is Bill Daniels, a Google search for Bill Daniels
gliding shows that IN the USA in any case he is considered to perhaps be an
expert.

I suspect that by such comments as "imperial arrogance" he is most
certainly not an Anglophile and to be honest find the arrogance part
somewhat ironic.

Terry Walsh





At 12:56 09 October 2013, Justin Craig wrote:
Bill,

I have watched this tread with some interest. Just for the record, what
authority are you on the subject? I find it very interesting that you are
so dismissive of the hours of research done by trained professionals who
have considerable amount of date and past cases to work with.

If this is your humble opinion, look after yourself, but keep your
opinions
to yourself. If how ever you are some sort of authority in the subject, I
will bow to your superior judgement.

Regards,

Justin


At 16:52 08 October 2013, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:05:57 PM UTC-6, Don Johnstone wrote:

All John says is absolutely correct. The sad fact is that this type of

accident occurs on a fairly regular basis and as yet no one has come
up

with a plausible cause. What is clear that the wing drop is a symptom
and

requires that the glider is released very early which is why the hand

should be on the release. A similar accident happened at my club a
month

back involving a Discus, in that case the pilot was unhurt but the
glider

was written off.

What is clear is that once the glider starts to yaw nothing on this
earth

is going to stop it except contact with the ground so early release,
to

mitigate the inevitable accident, is essential.



The sad fact is the UK hasn't figured out the cause - everyone else has.

Useful document on the BGA website

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/saf...ingleaflet.pdf

Well said. Just another big-mouthed Ugly American.

On 10/9/2013 11:45 AM, Terry Walsh wrote:
Hi Justin,

I suspect that this is Bill Daniels, a Google search for Bill Daniels
gliding shows that IN the USA in any case he is considered to perhaps be an
expert.

I suspect that by such comments as "imperial arrogance" he is most
certainly not an Anglophile and to be honest find the arrogance part
somewhat ironic.

Terry Walsh





At 12:56 09 October 2013, Justin Craig wrote:
Bill,

I have watched this tread with some interest. Just for the record, what
authority are you on the subject? I find it very interesting that you are
so dismissive of the hours of research done by trained professionals who
have considerable amount of date and past cases to work with.

If this is your humble opinion, look after yourself, but keep your
opinions
to yourself. If how ever you are some sort of authority in the subject, I
will bow to your superior judgement.

Regards,

Justin


At 16:52 08 October 2013, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:05:57 PM UTC-6, Don Johnstone wrote:

All John says is absolutely correct. The sad fact is that this type of

accident occurs on a fairly regular basis and as yet no one has come
up

with a plausible cause. What is clear that the wing drop is a symptom
and

requires that the glider is released very early which is why the hand

should be on the release. A similar accident happened at my club a
month

back involving a Discus, in that case the pilot was unhurt but the
glider

was written off.

What is clear is that once the glider starts to yaw nothing on this
earth

is going to stop it except contact with the ground so early release,
to

mitigate the inevitable accident, is essential.



The sad fact is the UK hasn't figured out the cause - everyone else has.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:59:50 AM UTC-6, Fred Bear wrote:
Well said. Just another big-mouthed Ugly American.



On 10/9/2013 11:45 AM, Terry Walsh wrote:

Hi Justin,



I suspect that this is Bill Daniels, a Google search for Bill Daniels

gliding shows that IN the USA in any case he is considered to perhaps be an

expert.



I suspect that by such comments as "imperial arrogance" he is most

certainly not an Anglophile and to be honest find the arrogance part

somewhat ironic.



Terry Walsh











At 12:56 09 October 2013, Justin Craig wrote:

Bill,



I have watched this tread with some interest. Just for the record, what

authority are you on the subject? I find it very interesting that you are

so dismissive of the hours of research done by trained professionals who

have considerable amount of date and past cases to work with.



If this is your humble opinion, look after yourself, but keep your

opinions

to yourself. If how ever you are some sort of authority in the subject, I

will bow to your superior judgement.



Regards,



Justin





At 16:52 08 October 2013, Bill D wrote:

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:05:57 PM UTC-6, Don Johnstone wrote:



All John says is absolutely correct. The sad fact is that this type of



accident occurs on a fairly regular basis and as yet no one has come

up



with a plausible cause. What is clear that the wing drop is a symptom

and



requires that the glider is released very early which is why the hand



should be on the release. A similar accident happened at my club a

month



back involving a Discus, in that case the pilot was unhurt but the

glider



was written off.



What is clear is that once the glider starts to yaw nothing on this

earth



is going to stop it except contact with the ground so early release,

to



mitigate the inevitable accident, is essential.







The sad fact is the UK hasn't figured out the cause - everyone else has.















What's ugly is death caused by incompetence.

Oh dear....

I do not wish to be associated with this post.

My post to Bill was rather direct, for which I will not apologize, however
the post below is unnecessary.

Bill, you have not identified yourself as Bill Daniels? You have not
addressed if your are in fact and authority on the subject or why you are
dismissive of the professionals opinion?

The leaflet that has been produced by the BGA and posted in this thread was
(in part) drafted by Peter Claiden who has been a glider pilot for as long
as I have been alive, but has also just received an OBE from HRH The Queen
on his retirement from the AAIB.

I think I am inclined to value his judgment.

JC


At 16:59 09 October 2013, Fred Bear wrote:
Well said. Just another big-mouthed Ugly American.

On 10/9/2013 11:45 AM, Terry Walsh wrote:
Hi Justin,

I suspect that this is Bill Daniels, a Google search for Bill Daniels
gliding shows that IN the USA in any case he is considered to perhaps
be
an
expert.

I suspect that by such comments as "imperial arrogance" he is most
certainly not an Anglophile and to be honest find the arrogance part
somewhat ironic.

Terry Walsh





At 12:56 09 October 2013, Justin Craig wrote:
Bill,

I have watched this tread with some interest. Just for the record,
what
authority are you on the subject? I find it very interesting that you
are
so dismissive of the hours of research done by trained professionals
who
have considerable amount of date and past cases to work with.

If this is your humble opinion, look after yourself, but keep your
opinions
to yourself. If how ever you are some sort of authority in the
subject,
I
will bow to your superior judgement.

Regards,

Justin


At 16:52 08 October 2013, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:05:57 PM UTC-6, Don Johnstone wrote:

All John says is absolutely correct. The sad fact is that this type
of

accident occurs on a fairly regular basis and as yet no one has come
up

with a plausible cause. What is clear that the wing drop is a
symptom
and

requires that the glider is released very early which is why the
hand

should be on the release. A similar accident happened at my club a
month

back involving a Discus, in that case the pilot was unhurt but the
glider

was written off.

What is clear is that once the glider starts to yaw nothing on this
earth

is going to stop it except contact with the ground so early release,
to

mitigate the inevitable accident, is essential.



The sad fact is the UK hasn't figured out the cause - everyone else
has.

Fred,

I did not intend this as a comment against Americans I know equally
arrogant people of many different national origins. I was simply commenting
that if this indeed Bill Daniels then he could be considered to be an
expert on winch operations, but his apparent refusal to accept any other
opinion than his own was more than a little arrogant. Since he had
mentioned imperial arrogance I found this ironic.

I do agree with his statement that accidental death is ugly whether caused
by incompetence or any other reason.

Terry Walsh


At 16:59 09 October 2013, Fred Bear wrote:
Well said. Just another big-mouthed Ugly American.

On 10/9/2013 11:45 AM, Terry Walsh wrote:
Hi Justin,

I suspect that this is Bill Daniels, a Google search for Bill Daniels
gliding shows that IN the USA in any case he is considered to perhaps
be
an
expert.

I suspect that by such comments as "imperial arrogance" he is most
certainly not an Anglophile and to be honest find the arrogance part
somewhat ironic.

Terry Walsh





At 12:56 09 October 2013, Justin Craig wrote:
Bill,

I have watched this tread with some interest. Just for the record,
what
authority are you on the subject? I find it very interesting that you
are
so dismissive of the hours of research done by trained professionals
who
have considerable amount of date and past cases to work with.

If this is your humble opinion, look after yourself, but keep your
opinions
to yourself. If how ever you are some sort of authority in the
subject,
I
will bow to your superior judgement.

Regards,

Justin


At 16:52 08 October 2013, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:05:57 PM UTC-6, Don Johnstone wrote:

All John says is absolutely correct. The sad fact is that this type
of

accident occurs on a fairly regular basis and as yet no one has come
up

with a plausible cause. What is clear that the wing drop is a
symptom
and

requires that the glider is released very early which is why the
hand

should be on the release. A similar accident happened at my club a
month

back involving a Discus, in that case the pilot was unhurt but the
glider

was written off.

What is clear is that once the glider starts to yaw nothing on this
earth

is going to stop it except contact with the ground so early release,
to

mitigate the inevitable accident, is essential.



The sad fact is the UK hasn't figured out the cause - everyone else
has.