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#1
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This discussion, that started as one about whether to hold the release
during an aerotow launch, has focussed on the risk to the glider pilot if a wing drops during the launch and subsequently migrated to become a debate about winch launch techniques. The poor chap who has been forgotten in all this is the tug pilot! Over the years a number of tug pilots in different countries have been killed by glider pilots getting out of position and going too high too quickly. This results in a big reduction in the tug's airspeed towards the stall, and since it no longer has enough elevator authority the glider raises the tugs tail and points it at the ground. Below about 700' a tug upset is probably fatal for the tug pilot - but only a minor inconvenience to the glider pilot. Tug upsets, once triggered, occur in a very short elapsed time period - probably two or three seconds. This does not give the glider pilot time to search for the cable release and pull it so as to save the tug pilot's life. On aerotow a glider pilot should have his hand touching the release, or holding a loop of nylon connected to it, if the stick movement would otherwise be restricted until at least 1,000'. Tug pilots are doing you a service. Respect them by being able to release instantly if the tow goes wrong. One entry in this thread stated that tows can be very rough and that the release might get pulled by accident. Much better that than kill a tug pilot. |
#2
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Totally agree George. However the tug pilot should have a
release at his end which he is perfectly entitled to pull if things are getting out of hand. Derek Copeland At 13:17 11 October 2013, George Knight wrote: This discussion, that started as one about whether to hold the release during an aerotow launch, has focussed on the risk to the glider pilot if a wing drops during the launch and subsequently migrated to become a debate about winch launch techniques. The poor chap who has been forgotten in all this is the tug pilot! Over the years a number of tug pilots in different countries have been killed by glider pilots getting out of position and going too high too quickly. This results in a big reduction in the tug's airspeed towards the stall, and since it no longer has enough elevator authority the glider raises the tugs tail and points it at the ground. Below about 700' a tug upset is probably fatal for the tug pilot - but only a minor inconvenience to the glider pilot. Tug upsets, once triggered, occur in a very short elapsed time period - probably two or three seconds. This does not give the glider pilot time to search for the cable release and pull it so as to save the tug pilot's life. On aerotow a glider pilot should have his hand touching the release, or holding a loop of nylon connected to it, if the stick movement would otherwise be restricted until at least 1,000'. Tug pilots are doing you a service. Respect them by being able to release instantly if the tow goes wrong. One entry in this thread stated that tows can be very rough and that the release might get pulled by accident. Much better that than kill a tug pilot. |
#3
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Agreed, but depending on the tug being flown this may be more difficult
than for the glider pilot. The tug pilot will normally have one hand on the stick and the other on the throttle/gas so at a moment when he is probably being subjected to a violent downward 'bunt' he needs to let go of something (the throttle), look for the release, grab it and operate it. On some tugs the release is near the throttle, on others it is in the roof, it may be on his left when he has his right hand on the throttle. Evidence suggests that tug pilots are not able to react fast enough. The onus must be on the glider pilot not to put the tug and its pilot at risk. If the glider pilot has his hand touching the release: 1. He/she can pull it faster than the tug. 2. The glider pilot is in a better position to see/realise that the tow is going wrong. Unless the tug pilot is looking in the mirror at the right moment, by the time he feels the speed going and the nose dropping it is probably too late if he is much below 1,000'. At 14:11 11 October 2013, Del Copeland wrote: Totally agree George. However the tug pilot should have a release at his end which he is perfectly entitled to pull if things are getting out of hand. Derek Copeland At 13:17 11 October 2013, George Knight wrote: This discussion, that started as one about whether to hold the release during an aerotow launch, has focussed on the risk to the glider pilot if a wing drops during the launch and subsequently migrated to become a debate about winch launch techniques. The poor chap who has been forgotten in all this is the tug pilot! Over the years a number of tug pilots in different countries have been killed by glider pilots getting out of position and going too high too quickly. This results in a big reduction in the tug's airspeed towards the stall, and since it no longer has enough elevator authority the glider raises the tugs tail and points it at the ground. Below about 700' a tug upset is probably fatal for the tug pilot - but only a minor inconvenience to the glider pilot. Tug upsets, once triggered, occur in a very short elapsed time period - probably two or three seconds. This does not give the glider pilot time to search for the cable release and pull it so as to save the tug pilot's life. On aerotow a glider pilot should have his hand touching the release, or holding a loop of nylon connected to it, if the stick movement would otherwise be restricted until at least 1,000'. Tug pilots are doing you a service. Respect them by being able to release instantly if the tow goes wrong. One entry in this thread stated that tows can be very rough and that the release might get pulled by accident. Much better that than kill a tug pilot. |
#4
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At 15:09 11 October 2013, George Knight wrote:
Agreed, but depending on the tug being flown this may be more difficult than for the glider pilot. The tug pilot will normally have one hand on the stick and the other on the throttle/gas so at a moment when he is probably being subjected to a violent downward 'bunt' he needs to let go of something (the throttle), look for the release, grab it and operate it. On some tugs the release is near the throttle, on others it is in the roof, it may be on his left when he has his right hand on the throttle. Evidence suggests that tug pilots are not able to react fast enough. The onus must be on the glider pilot not to put the tug and its pilot at risk. If the glider pilot has his hand touching the release: 1. He/she can pull it faster than the tug. 2. The glider pilot is in a better position to see/realise that the tow is going wrong. Unless the tug pilot is looking in the mirror at the right moment, by the time he feels the speed going and the nose dropping it is probably too late if he is much below 1,000'. Following the accident at Aboyne in which Stan Easton lost his life one of the requirements for UK tugs is that the release must always be adjacent to the throttle. I have seen banner towing tugs where it is not but for glider towing I understood that it was a requirement. |
#5
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On Friday, October 11, 2013 7:17:42 AM UTC-6, George Knight wrote:
This discussion, that started as one about whether to hold the release during an aerotow launch, has focussed on the risk to the glider pilot if a wing drops during the launch and subsequently migrated to become a debate about winch launch techniques. The poor chap who has been forgotten in all this is the tug pilot! Over the years a number of tug pilots in different countries have been killed by glider pilots getting out of position and going too high too quickly. This results in a big reduction in the tug's airspeed towards the stall, and since it no longer has enough elevator authority the glider raises the tugs tail and points it at the ground. Below about 700' a tug upset is probably fatal for the tug pilot - but only a minor inconvenience to the glider pilot. Tug upsets, once triggered, occur in a very short elapsed time period - probably two or three seconds. This does not give the glider pilot time to search for the cable release and pull it so as to save the tug pilot's life. On aerotow a glider pilot should have his hand touching the release, or holding a loop of nylon connected to it, if the stick movement would otherwise be restricted until at least 1,000'. Tug pilots are doing you a service. Respect them by being able to release instantly if the tow goes wrong. One entry in this thread stated that tows can be very rough and that the release might get pulled by accident. Much better that than kill a tug pilot. Hi George, Thanks for your comments. You are correct that we do need to remember the amazing guys and gals up in the tow planes and remember the risks they take to tow us up for our own fun. That said, I would like to assert that there have been many more accidents and bent ships from gliders accidentally releasing at low altitudes because their hand was on the release than tow planes being pulled into the ground because a hand was NOT on the release. Bruno - B4 |
#6
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#7
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The main thing is to ensure that the glider pilot's arm is not at full
stretch when holding the release knob, so there is a bit of slack in the system and he is not likely to pull it accidentally due to turbulence etc. Perhaps an extension cord should be attached if the release knob is difficult to get at or too far away. Derek Copeland Hi George, Thanks for your comments. You are correct that we do need to remember the a= mazing guys and gals up in the tow planes and remember the risks they take = to tow us up for our own fun. That said, I would like to assert that there = have been many more accidents and bent ships from gliders accidentally rele= asing at low altitudes because their hand was on the release than tow plane= s being pulled into the ground because a hand was NOT on the release.=20 Bruno - B4 |
#8
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If the pilot is going to hold the release knob, which I would
assert is a good idea, his arm should not be at full stretch when their is a chance of accidentally pulling it if turbulence is encountered. There should be some slack in the system. If the release knob is hard to get at, or a bit too far away, then an extension cord should be added. Derek Copeland At 16:54 11 October 2013, wrote: Hi George, Thanks for your comments. You are correct that we do need to remember the a= mazing guys and gals up in the tow planes and remember the risks they take = to tow us up for our own fun. That said, I would like to assert that there = have been many more accidents and bent ships from gliders accidentally rele= asing at low altitudes because their hand was on the release than tow plane= s being pulled into the ground because a hand was NOT on the release.=20 Bruno - B4 |
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