Best cross country ship class

Great feedback, guys.

Based on this and word from my club mates, the guidance seems clearly on the side of flapped.

Given this, I've decided to pass on the very sweet, pristine Discus 2b Richard is selling in Colorado. It's one of the nicest used ships I've ever seen. A couple from my club happened to be in Colorado and had a look. They report its a great ship and really enjoyed talking to Richard.

So, now I'm really down to WHICH awesome 15m flapped ship.
Ventus 2 - (can't find one in my budget at the moment)
ASW 27 - (of the two on wings and wheels, one has sold and the other one is not responsive to my info requests)

Aside from the LAK, should there be other flapped, 15m ships in the $70k or less range I should be looking at?

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:23:52 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Great feedback, guys.



Based on this and word from my club mates, the guidance seems clearly on the side of flapped.



Given this, I've decided to pass on the very sweet, pristine Discus 2b Richard is selling in Colorado. It's one of the nicest used ships I've ever seen. A couple from my club happened to be in Colorado and had a look. They report its a great ship and really enjoyed talking to Richard.



So, now I'm really down to WHICH awesome 15m flapped ship.

Ventus 2 - (can't find one in my budget at the moment)

ASW 27 - (of the two on wings and wheels, one has sold and the other one is not responsive to my info requests)



Aside from the LAK, should there be other flapped, 15m ships in the $70k or less range I should be looking at?

Well, I owned a HPH 304CZ for 7 years and it is a great ship that you may want to also consider. It is also in your $70K price range. Thx - Renny

When I was shopping for my first (and only) glider last year, it was just like discovering girls back in high school. I fell in and out of love with four different ones over a period of six months.

I'm glad I took some time to sort that out.

LS6 would be a really good shout. You may find one of the later models (LS6
b or C it think?) which would also give the 18 meter tips. Not to sure
about the cost though. In early 15 meter should be well within budget.

It has already been mentioned, but the DG tax ought to be a consideration,
although not a deterrent. LS gliders are some of the most lovely gliders to
fly. I have not flown a 6, but have 300 hours in the 8.




At 23:23 16 October 2013, wrote:
Great feedback, guys.

Based on this and word from my club mates, the guidance seems clearly on
th=
e side of flapped. =20

Given this, I've decided to pass on the very sweet, pristine Discus 2b
Rich=
ard is selling in Colorado. It's one of the nicest used ships I've ever
se=
en. A couple from my club happened to be in Colorado and had a look.
They=
report its a great ship and really enjoyed talking to Richard.

So, now I'm really down to WHICH awesome 15m flapped ship.
Ventus 2 - (can't find one in my budget at the moment)
ASW 27 - (of the two on wings and wheels, one has sold and the other one
is=
not responsive to my info requests)

Aside from the LAK, should there be other flapped, 15m ships in the $70k
or=
less range I should be looking at?

At your stage and budget (?), LS4 - 15m, no flaps, excellent brakes so
superb approach control, no vices and a very easy rig. In my opion slightly
better co-ordinated than a Discus.

Flapped gliders have much heavier wings (eg ASW20) AND you need two left
hands to achieve a seamless approach when setting airbrakes and flaps into
short fields.

Unflapped may delay the Glider Pilots Bad Back for a few years!

The LS4 "A" does not self connect and is a bit fiddly 'till you get the
hang of it but this is a minor inconvenience.

I had an LS4 A for 10 years plus various flapped and unflapped gliders so
am unbiased.

If you can afford a bit more, go for an LS8.

Unfortunately there is a maintenance issue with LS over documentation which
adds to the running cost to build into the equation.

Barney



At 08:11 17 October 2013, Justin Craig wrote:
LS6 would be a really good shout. You may find one of the later models
(LS6
b or C it think?) which would also give the 18 meter tips. Not to sure
about the cost though. In early 15 meter should be well within budget.

It has already been mentioned, but the DG tax ought to be a
consideration,
although not a deterrent. LS gliders are some of the most lovely gliders
to
fly. I have not flown a 6, but have 300 hours in the 8.




At 23:23 16 October 2013, wrote:
Great feedback, guys.

Based on this and word from my club mates, the guidance seems clearly on
th=
e side of flapped. =20

Given this, I've decided to pass on the very sweet, pristine Discus 2b
Rich=
ard is selling in Colorado. It's one of the nicest used ships I've ever
se=
en. A couple from my club happened to be in Colorado and had a look.
They=
report its a great ship and really enjoyed talking to Richard.

So, now I'm really down to WHICH awesome 15m flapped ship.
Ventus 2 - (can't find one in my budget at the moment)
ASW 27 - (of the two on wings and wheels, one has sold and the other one
is=
not responsive to my info requests)

Aside from the LAK, should there be other flapped, 15m ships in the $70k
or=
less range I should be looking at?

Perhaps a more relevant question to ask is "What is the best glider for me?" rather than "What is the best cross country ship?".

I'm not an expert, so I cannot give advice, but I don't understand why practically everyone on this thread is in favor of a pilot, who has not yet even been checked out on his club PW-5, trying to transition directly to a high performance glider.

I transitioned from SGS 2-33, to Blanik L-23, then quickly transitioned through a ASK-21 and a PW-6. Since the beginning of this season I've flown an SZD 51-1 Junior for about 50 hours in all sorts of conditions over changing terrain. I'm certainly not bored and I get better every time I fly. I've gotten much better at exploiting lift and I can much better handle strong turbulence and crosswind takeoffs and landings. I'm much better at reading the clouds and weather. The Junior has been an ideal learning platform for me.

The Junior seems to be designed for docility and durability. Look at the massive tail boom on a Junior some time. I can worry less about breaking the tail off when I land out, and I've heard that even experts do that some times. It would be rather discouraging to break a $70K ship on an early land out. Look at the tiny low drag tail boom on a high performance ship.

The other thing that I like about the Junior is that it climbs really well given the low wing loading, so I get the positive feedback of being able stay up even when I flub up. It is easy to fly and rewarding.

I did not want to get too much ship too soon, scare myself bad and ruin the sport forever.

I think the experts forget how much expertise they have, and how much a student needs to learn, and how much practice it takes. Sure, I'm flying a "paper bag", but I'm getting dam good at it and I'm having a blast.

I realize that I will have a lot to learn when/if I transition to a higher performance ship, but the perception and motor skills that I'm developing in the Junior will make that transition less of a crap shoot. A lot of things that I'm learning now (like finding lift) will apply directly to the slicker ship.

On Monday, October 21, 2013 9:51:07 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
Perhaps a more relevant question to ask is "What is the best glider for me?" rather than "What is the best cross country ship?".



I'm not an expert, so I cannot give advice, but I don't understand why practically everyone on this thread is in favor of a pilot, who has not yet even been checked out on his club PW-5, trying to transition directly to a high performance glider.



I transitioned from SGS 2-33, to Blanik L-23, then quickly transitioned through a ASK-21 and a PW-6. Since the beginning of this season I've flown an SZD 51-1 Junior for about 50 hours in all sorts of conditions over changing terrain. I'm certainly not bored and I get better every time I fly. I've gotten much better at exploiting lift and I can much better handle strong turbulence and crosswind takeoffs and landings. I'm much better at reading the clouds and weather. The Junior has been an ideal learning platform for me.



The Junior seems to be designed for docility and durability. Look at the massive tail boom on a Junior some time. I can worry less about breaking the tail off when I land out, and I've heard that even experts do that some times. It would be rather discouraging to break a $70K ship on an early land out. Look at the tiny low drag tail boom on a high performance ship.



The other thing that I like about the Junior is that it climbs really well given the low wing loading, so I get the positive feedback of being able stay up even when I flub up. It is easy to fly and rewarding.



I did not want to get too much ship too soon, scare myself bad and ruin the sport forever.



I think the experts forget how much expertise they have, and how much a student needs to learn, and how much practice it takes. Sure, I'm flying a "paper bag", but I'm getting dam good at it and I'm having a blast.



I realize that I will have a lot to learn when/if I transition to a higher performance ship, but the perception and motor skills that I'm developing in the Junior will make that transition less of a crap shoot. A lot of things that I'm learning now (like finding lift) will apply directly to the slicker ship.